Graham Henry has a spray at Rugby Tourists

[Gnostic]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/graham-henry-slams-rugby-migrants-20110420-1doax.html

No doubt all the usual suspects will come out saying take the money while it on offer etc.

Fact is the constant bleed of players at or just below Test quality is why so many Super teams struggle with depth in key areas.

 

[Newb]

just going on the headline i thought you meant visitors coming to the RWC

well, that, and grumpy ted's general demeanor

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Some of the comments on that article are interesting, especially the ones where people rightly point out that Henry is being a big fat hypocrite. Did he not bugger off to the NH and coach Wales and the Lions? He was on the cusp of the All Black coaching job at that time or at least would have been a candidate.

 

[barbarian]

NZ have suffered a bit more than us in recent seasons, especially with younger guys that would be in the frame for AB selection if they just hung around for one or two more seasons. Jared Payne is a prime example from this season, with guys like Luke McAlister, Nick Evans and Sam Tuitupou before him all taking the $$$ up north just as they are on the verge of cracking an AB spot.

I am all for veterans cashing in for a couple of years before they retire. But youngish guys who are yet to reach their potential bolting offshore does give me the shits a bit, especially when they are on a comfortable salary at home.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree that it's not ideal, but I'm not going to have a crack at a bloke who wants go do a bit of OE (as the Kiwis call it) and make some good cash while they're at it. I did it in my career so I'd be the last person who should criticise.

 

[Hawko]

The money on offer to NZ players is, I understand, less than that paid to the Australian players. Then add in an exchange rate of 1.3+ to the Aussie $. Is it any wonder they are looking for greener pastures?

 

[Newb]

I agree that it's not ideal, but I'm not going to have a crack at a bloke who wants go do a bit of OE (as the Kiwis call it) and make some good cash while they're at it. I did it in my career so I'd be the last person who should criticise.

what was toulouse paying back then??

yeah i think he's just having a cry for not much reason. just because he wants deeper playing stocks doesn't mean a bloke shouldn't take his best option, which in a lot of cases is overseas. hard to break in with a bunch of lifers in the squad.

alby mathewson comes to mind as one guy that has stuck around more than long enough and still has hardly gotten a shot over the likes of piri, ellis, and cowan. could you really blame him if he were to take off too? would be easy for masaga and ranger to take their talents elsewhere too with roko and sivi still clogging up spots. hosea gear too.

 

[Gnostic]

I am pissed that the Super Rugby series is being placed in danger of being relegated in statue by the top players buggering off for two or three years between RWCs only to come back in the nick of time to "guarenteed" or at least seriously contend with players who remained and supported their home union. This is precisely the problem I foresaw when the exception was made for Carter and McAlsietr and in Oz for Elsom to return and walk straight into the Wallabies squad without playing a game in Oz that season.

I say it is indeed a free market and they can go if they want. But to be considered for the Wallabies they should play an entire season for a Super side and be available for the national sid for that whole season as well. If they don't do this I don't care if they are the second coming they can either bugger off back to their big dollar euro club or wait to become elligible.

 

[barbarian]

Don't go over the top, Gnostic. It has only happened in one or two cases (one in Australia), and has hardly resulted in all the top players 'buggering off' up north in search of big bikkies. In fact all of our top players have resigned for another few seasons. Giteau and Burgo are going but that is about it, and should be viewed more as natural attrition.

So basically your point is invalid, in Australia certainly.

 

[Gnostic]

How many second tier players need to go because they will not make the Wallabies or at best Oz A before the Super teams struggle with third stringers. The loss of players like Peter Hewat has always been underestimated in Oz IMO because he wasn't a Wallaby. He was however a top notch Super player.

 

[Ruggo]

Consider it a market mechanism sorting those who truly want the jersey from those who don't.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm fine with the concept of the ARU requiring players to have played for a Super rugby franchise (any one of them, not just Australian ones) or 1st grade club (to account for bolters from club level, rare as they are now) in that season before they can play for the Wallabies.

 

[barbarian]

How many second tier players need to go because they will not make the Wallabies or at best Oz A before the Super teams struggle with third stringers. The loss of players like Peter Hewat has always been underestimated in Oz IMO because he wasn't a Wallaby. He was however a top notch Super player.

That is a completely different point from the one you initially made.

I would say that if a player has no hope of making the Wallabies then he isn't really 'second tier', is he? It is never good to lose any player, obviously, but players like Hewat, Chapman etc. may be a small loss to a Super franchise but they also open up a spot for a young player to be blooded. In the case of Hewat it was Beale and Turner, in the case of Chapman it was Fainga'a.

The only recent overseas loss that has hurt Australian rugby is Hugh McMeniman. The rest have been fairly easily covered.

 

[Newb]

The only recent overseas loss that has hurt Australian rugby is Hugh McMeniman. The rest have been fairly easily covered.

i'd take george smith back. but you're right about the path he's opened up for hooper/Fainga'a (screw salvi)

 

[qwerty51]

The only recent overseas loss that has hurt Australian rugby is Hugh McMeniman. The rest have been fairly easily covered.

Dan Vickerman and Gerrard

 

[barbarian]

Both Vickerman and Gerrard were easily covered at both state level and international level. For the Tahs it gave an opportunity for Hand and then Douglas to step up, and for the Brumbies it gave a greater chance to Lealiifano.

I am not saying the teams were better without them, just that it didn't really hurt at any level. McMeniman royally fucked the Reds and Wallabies as despite being injury prone he was a key development player for the future.

 

[qwerty51]

Um.... I think it was quite clear last year how much we missed Vickerman. We could've finally gotten rid of Sharpe and the scrum would've been safe.

In 2009, O'Connor was not up to scratch for the Wallaby wing/fullback position and Gerrard would've suited. Don't tell me it was for his development or else I will facepalm.

 

[barbarian]

Gerrard never proved himself as a Wallaby and would have been no better than the array of other options we had at that time.

Vickerman would have been nice but people remember him with rose-tinted spectacles, he was beginning to look pedestrian just before he went OS. I strongly doubt the scrum would have been safe purely because of Vickerman. Having Sharpe take the step up then was a strong contributing factor in his development, which sees him as one of the leading locks in world rugby now.

 

[qwerty51]

Vickerman would have been nice but people remember him with rose-tinted spectacles, he was beginning to look pedestrian just before he went OS.

I'm getting quite sick of this comment, what do people base it off? He's last season for the Tahs that he took them to the GF? He was easily the best Australian player the whole Super rugby season.

I strongly doubt the scrum would have been safe purely because of Vickerman. Having Sharpe take the step up then was a strong contributing factor in his development, which sees him as one of the leading locks in world rugby now.

I'm not talking about Vicks replacing Sharpe, it's the other lock that's a problem. When Horwill went down we had no one else.

 

[Sully]

Remember Vickerman went to Uni not to play Rugby. A bit different I think!