Gradual Unfurling of New Wallaby Coaches

[RedsHappy]

Hawko, to your various points, it's important additionally to recall that an avowed JO'N 'key objective' for 2012 was for Deans/Wallabies to win this year's Bledisloe Cup...as JO'N himself noted when he said re this '...we've waited long enough...' He also stated that we in Australian rugby had no less an objective than, again in 2012, to be 'no 1 in the world'.

We are only mere months away from the June, 4N and Bledisloe matches that will largely determine whether the above objectives are met.

One would surely have concluded that to achieve these lofty goals, goals we'd all love to attain, a fully resourced, stable, improved (in multiple respects) total Wallaby coaching capability would be essential, and essential to have in place pretty much now so as to deal with the tricky new June Tests in between the S15 season, and then to forward plan the range of tasks and decisions central to success in the new 4N and Bled.

Well, the above is my assumption, anyway. Whatever, as this thread demonstrates, we seem as of late March 2012 to be a very long way from having our Wallaby management capability stable, clear, adequately staffed (eg, who and where is the crucial backs/attack coach?) and united in its values and purpose.

There seems to be a substantial execution and resoucing gap between our important stated near term goals, and how we go about achieving them in practice. Let's hope that the consequence of that gap - a gap that was/is wholly under the control of the ARU - is not further disappointment for the fans, sponsors and media that in aggregate fund the game. And 'fans always first', as without them, nothing else will come in support over time.

 

[Bruce Ross]

RH, your comment above, along with those of Hawko and others, brings us back to the serious issues you alluded to when you started this thread. Unfortunately, some of more flippant bent seem to have hijacked the discussion and taken it down various alleys and byways. It does them no credit. I think I may be able to assist with one of your questions:

as this thread demonstrates, we seem as of late March 2012 to be a very long way from having our Wallaby management capability stable, clear, adequately staffed (eg, who and where is the crucial backs/attack coach?) and united in its values and purpose.

Surely we will not yet again disappoint and let down our beloved and recurring glorious leader in his determination that Australian rugby should be "No. 1 in the world". To best ensure this does not happen the most outstanding candidate for "the crucial backs/attack coach" role is Todd Louden. He is currently in Sydney and could be released by his club employer to start work almost immediately.

His most relevant credentials include his 2007 season as attack coach with Heineke Meyer's Bulls who went from 5th to winning the Super 14. They were the first South African team to win a Super title with their success attributed to their new attacking style. The following year he was backs coach with the Waratahs under Ewen McKenzie. The 'Tahs went from 13th in 2007 to 2nd before being beaten in the Final.
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[redstragic]

Guys, with all these names and positions being thrown around are we going to be over coached? The only way I can see it working is if we have a strong management orientated head coach to keep them all in order. Otherwise we'll continue to get muddled announcements like this week that will give us endless opportunities to piss-take.

 

[RedsHappy]

Rt, as of today, my understanding would be something like this:

Head coach - RD
Scrum - maybe Noriega, though his status in 2012 is unconfirmed/unclear
Defense/Forwards - Totality Tony (but with his myriad other duties, who quite knows his precise technical focus, looks like Blake to be boned) to arrive in approx. June 2012. Note: TT has not been formally announced by the ARU, mostly his arrival with the Wallabies has been 'announced' by his multiple statements to the Irish media.
S&C - Ashley Jones - here now?
Kicking - don't know, nothing announced, maybe Bram back in some part time form?
Attack/Backs - this has been handled by RD himself for some time. No idea what's intended here for 2012, no announcements made as yet.

There have been vague leaks re Blades in an unspecified role, but nothing has been announced.

At present, the above does not look like we risk an 'over coached' scenario.

 

[redstragic]

Rt, as of today, my understanding would be something like this:

Head coach - RD
Scrum - maybe Noriega, though his status in 2012 is unconfirmed/unclear
Defense/Forwards - Totality Tony (but with his myriad other duties, who quite knows his precise technical focus, looks like Blake to be boned) to arrive in approx. June 2012
S&C - Ashley Jones - here now?
Kicking - don't know, nothing announced, maybe Bram back in some part time form?
Attack/Backs - this has been handled by RD himself for some time. No idea what's intended here for 2012, no announcements made as yet.

There have been vague leaks re Blades in an unspecified role, but nothing has been announced.

At present, the above does not look like we risk an 'over coached' scenario.

I didn't communicate my thought properly. I think back to previous teams, the 2007 English Cricket Team, the 2008 Reds, the 2011 Wallabies where to me, it looked like the players had too many people talking to them mucking up their heads.

Then I think about the Rod McQueen wallabies, the Link reds and the 2011 English cricket team and the players seemed unencumbered, knew their purpose and went out and executed. The reality is they had as many coaches talking to them but the message was controlled and probably uniform from the different coaches. Each of the teams had very strong, clear Head Coaches.

 

[suckerforred]

And thought this was Tony's job???????

http://www.sportspeople.com.au/sp/position/PositionDisplay.asp?ID=19167

 

[Bruce Ross]

And thought this was Tony's job???????

http://www.sportspeople.com.au/sp/position/PositionDisplay.asp?ID=19167

Surely the smart thing to do, suckerforred, would be hold off on filling this role until it had been cleared by Totality. He might feel he has enough on his plate but if he has some spare time he might like to give the emerging players early exposure to his methods.

 

[BPC]

What would be the correct term for Totality's helpers?
Tonto?
Partialities?
Decaf?

Inconsequentialities

 

[BPC]

RH, your comment above, along with those of Hawko and others, brings us back to the serious issues you alluded to when you started this thread. Unfortunately, some of more flippant bent seem to have hijacked the discussion and taken it down various alleys and byways. It does them no credit.

I make no apologies. Frankly the self-scripting satire produced here is truly the apogee of the possibilities of communication through the internet. Frankly we may as well call Al Gore and tell him to turn the internet off because surely it can only go downhill from these lofty heights.

 

[The Red Baron]

Looks like Growden has only just caught up:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...oaching-staff-under-deans-20120402-1w8p2.html

 

[Bruce Ross]

Looks like Growden has only just caught up:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...oaching-staff-under-deans-20120402-1w8p2.html

You are being far too kind to Scoop, TBR. Far from catching up he has lost sight of the peloton and is reduced to asking Gauloise smoking rustics which way they went. Someone should tell Scoop about the internet; then he wouldn't have to rely on phone calls from St Leonards pushing the line: "but Robbie Deans remains the top dog" and "McGahan will be No.2 to Deans". It looks to me like a ham-fisted attempt at damage control, but the very fact that there is a need to emphasise that the Head Coach is still in charge suggests a belated realisation that they may be putting one too many bulls in the paddock.

I wonder if Robbie will go out and drive Totality in from the airport when he lobs back at the end of May.
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[RedsHappy]

Looks like Growden has only just caught up:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...oaching-staff-under-deans-20120402-1w8p2.html

1. It continues to appal me that the ARU deems it right to simply leak key news items re the future of the Wallabies to one 'journalist' only, clearly in return for a symbiotic 'never critique the ARU in any way' trade with him. Just totally wrong, at every level.

2. On another front, we see N Scrivener in the frame (this was leaked out of the UK some months back). I had cause to think: in hiring Williams, Graham, McGahan and Scrivener (if that happens), the ARU is consistently recruiting coaches whose principal and recent experience has been with NH rugby. A rugby style played in a mode very different to ours and forged in climatic conditions far different to ours. Well I ask: would not a better origin for at least some of the key Wallaby coaches be SA or NZ, sourced from teams or areas known for a more dynamic, attacking style of rugby? Or a Cron (or Cron clone), as a specialist? Look what W Smith has done for the Chiefs in only months there, the team is virtually transformed over 2011's version, beautiful balance between skilled forwards and backs, producing a wonderfully well orchestrated attack. I was recently shocked when sitting at Twickers seeing Wales v England 2012, it really was a repetitive, boring, penalty-hunting game with limited attacking flair and guile....the best of NH rugby? That's the pool we seem to preference finding Aussie coaches from. If have a NZ head coach, and we want to start winning things again, I have no problem with additional SA or NZ support coaches.

3. Will someone, somewhere, please one fine day explain to us wtf a 'skills coach' does, says , or is responsible for, and how he's measured. I note from the GG article, we are back yet again with this maddening title as was bestowed on Graham 2009-2010, and no one to this day seems to know precisely what he did or quite what he was meant to do under this banner. Not his fault. What really worries me is that I fear this means that RD may again himself assume the role of defacto attack/backs coach with the ensuing results and consequences we have all witnessed.

 

[Joe Mac]

Good points RedHappy but remember that the RWC 2015 is in the NH, so chosing coaches that are adept in those conditions isn't completely crazy if that is their priority.

Not saying I agree with this, the Bledisloe should be their foremost antecedence in my eyes.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Good points RedHappy but remember that the RWC 2015 is in the NH, so chosing coaches that are adept in those conditions isn't completely crazy...

I notice you use the qualifier "completely", Joe, which gives you some sort of out. The only way it might make any sort of weird sense is if we're prepared to write off 2012, 2013 and 2014 in order to prepare for a tournament in 2015 where we may have some limited competence in playing Northern Hemisphere style rugby but we come up against at least six other nations who play it all the time.
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[Joe Mac]

I notice you use the qualifier "completely", Joe, which gives you some sort of out. The only way it might make any sort of weird sense is if we're prepared to write off 2012, 2013 and 2014 in order to prepare for a tournament in 2015 where we may have some limited competence in playing Northern Hemisphere style rugby but we come up against at least six other nations who play it all the time.
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A point well taken Bruce. Writing off the three years before a world cup has always been part of the Deans logic. Not my logic; hence the qualifiers.

Logic to me would be hiring an NH scrum coach to help negate our greatest weakness. Not hiring an entire coaching set-up from the NH and an Australian scrum coach.

 

[RedsHappy]

A point well taken Bruce. Writing off the three years before a world cup has always been part of the Deans logic. Not my logic; hence the qualifiers.

Logic to me would be hiring an NH scrum coach to help negate our greatest weakness. Not hiring an entire coaching set-up from the NH and an Australian scrum coach.

Yeah, well said Joe Mac. It's completely arse about. M Foley is really the only contemporary forwards/scrum coach in Australia that has a consistent and distinguished record at that trade. And he decided to leave the Wallaby set-up in late 2008.

 

[Scarfman]

Did anyone notice Bruce calling Growden "Scoop"? Love it.

 

[cyclopath]

Did anyone notice Bruce calling Growden "Scoop"? Love it.

I even noticed it before Bruce pinched it from me. Another time, another thread. I probably pinched it from someone else...

 

[Bruce Ross]

I even noticed it before Bruce pinched it from me. Another time, another thread. I probably pinched it from someone else...

Moses, is the program you are using for the forum sufficiently robust that we can attribute our sources via footnotes and bibliography?

Apologies for the plagiarism, cyclo. But as the saying goes, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Digressing a la LG, I have noted you tweeting in recent days about your visits to cafes and eating establishments in the Shoalhaven but I'm sure it beats telling us about the highlights of your day job. In your specialisation even more than most others, washing your hands is obligatory.
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[cyclopath]

Bruce, that you borrowed anything I wrote is enough for me!
I mainly tweet my whereabouts via 4square to annoy Gagger, truth be told. He thought I was holidaying, rather than ridding the Shoalhaven of the scourge of stones, prostates and flaccidity.
As for the handwashing, I find gloves then antibacterial handwash the best. One of my more senior colleagues, now retired, used to advocate that gloves were for the weak, and all one required was a sliver of soap under the fingernail. The urological equivalent of Steve Finnane. Proper 'ard! Enough highlights for you?
Digression over.