Gay Rugby World Cup

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Hang on Angry,

If no one gives a crap, and there are no more stereotypes to break down, then there is no need for a Tournament, and all the travelling, playing and partying that goes with that. Can we keep a bit of residual stereotyping to justify another chance to celebrate Heavens Game?

Mind you that day is still some time off.

In the meantime, there is probably no better way to remember the heroism and values of Mark Bingham.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Get with the times. The Sydney Convicts are current holders, and IIRC have won it previously. Same as the Wobs have done with Bill.

Australia has won RWC (Bill) x 2, Olympic Gold Rugby x 1, Paralympic Wheelchair Rugby Gold x 1, Gay RWC (Mark Bingham) x 2. Think there is a Womens 7's World champ or two in there as well.

Across the broad canvas that is rugbydom, we are awesome. Who said Rugby is dying in Australia?

Its not fair - the Wobblies could probably beat them and we need some silver ware

 

[Hairy Test Eagle]

So basically this is just a Rugby League World Cup?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I won't take the obvious bait.

It will be nothing like the Mungoball "world" cup.

The Bingham Trophy draws competitive teams from all around the world. There are no "faux" international teams consisting almost entirely off Australian residents playing for a state where their parents or grandparents came from, to try and convince themselves that their game has some form of international footprint.

 

[What2040]

Reckon you'd find it difficult to find a team 22 quality openly homosexual males in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Team bonding would be interesting as to how to get the boys up for thye contest.

We live in an interesting world nowadays - anyway last post from me on this thread

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Au contraire, I reckon if you rounded up a random selection of 22 openly homosexual males in Sydney, you would find 22 quality people.

I suspect you may have meant 22 openly homosexual males who are also quality rugby players. Different story.

The quality of the rugby or players is not the issue. It has been well established that players do not have to be homosexual, openly or closeted, to participate in the battle for "Mark".

Your comment on team bonding may be tongue in cheek, but could very easily be construed as homophobic and representative of the stereotypes that this tournament seeks to break down. Even if meant in jest, it is still out of line.

If that is actually representative of your values, then it is probably best that it was your last post on this thread.

 

[Karl]

Im starting to think that non-elite competition is more enjoyable to watch. The lower standard of play doesn't seem to detract form the excitement of the competition at all and if anything makes it more visceral when you're at the ground. It also can often make the game more open and exciting.

I think comps like this that get the game out there are of great value completely aside from any larger social issues that they champion.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It seems that the "Mark" is only a blokes tournament.

Perhaps the Sydney 2014 tournament should consider introducing a female component, if only as a demonstration parallel competition.

 

[Braveheart81]

Au contraire, I reckon if you rounded up a random selection of 22 openly homosexual males in Sydney, you would find 22 quality people.

I suspect you may have meant 22 openly homosexual males who are also quality rugby players. Different story.

The quality of the rugby or players is not the issue. It has been well established that players do not have to be homosexual, openly or closeted, to participate in the battle for "Mark".

Your comment on team bonding may be tongue in cheek, but could very easily be construed as homophobic and representative of the stereotypes that this tournament seeks to break down. Even if meant in jest, it is still out of line.

If that is actually representative of your values, then it is probably best that it was your last post on this thread.

I would imagine that you could find 22 very, very good homosexual male rugby players in Australia... If you knew the sexuality of every rugby player in Australia.

That is in essence what this is all about. Making it ok for people playing a macho, physical sport (or any sport for that matter) to be open about their sexuality without fear of ridicule or discrimination.

 

[DPK]

That is in essence what this is all about. Making it ok for people playing a macho, physical sport (or any sport for that matter) to be open about their sexuality without fear of ridicule or discrimination.

Shouldn't we do that through the normal passages of the game, instead of creating a separate competition?

 

[Braveheart81]

How exactly is it working now? People can be accepting as they want but if no one is game to come out then nothing changes.

By having a gay rugby world cup, it provides an opportunity for solidarity and safety in numbers to be in an environment where people know there is acceptance.

If you did nothing, it would probably still happen eventually, but this sort of thing speeds up the process greatly.

It is affirmative action. By being proactive, it should help achieve the end result much faster.

 

[DPK]

By having a gay rugby world cup, it provides an opportunity for solidarity and safety in numbers to be in an environment where people know there is acceptance..

But then they all go back to normal rugby competitions. Shouldn't we improve rugby's tolerance and acceptance of homosexuality instead of transplanting it's gay players into their own World Cup?

 

[Braveheart81]

In many cases, there is a large gap between expectation and reality. The gay man fears that he we will be ostracised and rejected by his peers or teammates if he comes out whereas the reality may be that they will actually be quite accepting of it.

A good friend of mine came out a few years ago. When he told me and another friend he was actually expecting that we were going to reject him and say we no longer wanted to be his friend. He was so far off the mark it wasn't funny.

I think this sort of thing is a big part of why things like the Mark Bingham Cup are worthwhile. It shows people that they are not alone and that people will accept them for who they are.

 

[BDA]

But then they all go back to normal rugby competitions. Shouldn't we improve rugby's tolerance and acceptance of homosexuality instead of transplanting it's gay players into their own World Cup?

Definitely, but how do you do that?

I think a tournament like this is a good way to breakdown stereotypes that gay people don't play rugby. It makes people realise that there are probably gay people playing in their teams right now, that dont feel comfortable with letting their team mates know. It makes people, like we are doing right now, discuss the issue. It's good for raising awareness.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

DPK,
We had a team of red heads created for a tournament in Centennial Park recently. They came from all over to celebrate their red headedness.

The IGRAB tournament should be seen as no different. It is simply a tournament that some likeminded people have decided to play in. Obviously there is the whole discrimination and breaking down stereotypes thing, but so what, it is about likeminded people coming together to play and party.

Do you think that we shouldn't have indigenous tournaments, that they should simply express their joy for rugby by rocking up to their local club to play?

Same with Maori Rugby, Lefthanded Scotsmen rugby. By all means "normal" rugby should embrace them and provide them with an outlet, but why do you want to limit their freedom of association?

The more Rugby being played the better.

I'd support a tournament for teams representing the congregations from Churches called "St Pauls". The St Pauls Rugby World Cup. Why not?

The MAJOR point of difference that Rugby has over lesser sports is that it is international and inclusive, with a place for all shapes and sizes.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lefthanded Scotsmen rugby.

Sign me up.

If you weren't being serious I'll be very upset.

 

[DPK]

Do you think that we shouldn't have indigenous tournaments, that they should simply express their joy for rugby by rocking up to their local club to play?

Off topic a bit but no, I don't think we should. Rugby should be inclusive, not exclusive or divisive.

That's not to say you shouldn't be proud of your heritage, sexuality or just who you are. But if we're all playing the same game as uniquely different individuals, we make the game better.

One rugby pie, not slices for the different flavours.

 

[AlexH]

Please excuse me if I am missing something here because I am, by no means, an expert in this matter but isn't the whole idea behind 'gay rights' equal treatment? This being the case, how can you expect to be accepted and treated as an equal, irrespective of your sexul orientation, and in the same breathe expect special treatment because of your sexuality? The way I see it you can be treated as a human being - irrespective of your values, beliefs, sexual orientation etc - or you can choose to grandstand the fact that you are different and expect special treatment but then not be surprised when you are no longer treated as an equal.

 

[wilful]

Please excuse me if I am missing something here because I am, by no means, an expert in this matter but isn't the whole idea behind 'gay rights' equal treatment? This being the case, how can you expect to be accepted and treated as an equal, irrespective of your sexul orientation, and in the same breathe expect special treatment because of your sexuality? The way I see it you can be treated as a human being - irrespective of your values, beliefs, sexual orientation etc - or you can choose to grandstand the fact that you are different and expect special treatment but then not be surprised when you are no longer treated as an equal.

AlexH, yes, you are missing something here. As has been made perfectly clear upthread, no one at all is expecting or asking for special treatment. Can you point to where this is happening? Meanwhile, it's accepted as true that professional gay rugby players would find it very hard to come out of the closet.

Also, whenever I hear a member of a majority decry "special treatment" for a minority, I can only think of this song:

 

[BDA]

Please excuse me if I am missing something here because I am, by no means, an expert in this matter but isn't the whole idea behind 'gay rights' equal treatment? This being the case, how can you expect to be accepted and treated as an equal, irrespective of your sexul orientation, and in the same breathe expect special treatment because of your sexuality? The way I see it you can be treated as a human being - irrespective of your values, beliefs, sexual orientation etc - or you can choose to grandstand the fact that you are different and expect special treatment but then not be surprised when you are no longer treated as an equal.

I think you might have missed the fact that the tournament is not just for gays. all are welcome to participate. The whole point of the tournament is to highlight and raise awareness in relation to inequality and discrimination in the sporting community. It's not about expecting special treatment.

I don't see it as grandstanding.