GAGR Vote - Should Deans go after the EOYT?
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daz
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I understand what you are saying Bh, but my view is that I don't really give a running rat's red rectum what other teams are doing. The ARU doesn't pay the Wallaby coach to fix those things.
My concern is the first part of your sentence; We are struggling to score tries and squandering opportunities. The ARU does pay the Wallaby coach to fix those things.
I made a comment during the game that a bloke with a one inch penis had better penetration potential than our backline (and the Aussie bowling attack, but that is another story). How can we be so fucking toothless with the talent we have?
One thing I think is worthwhile looking at, is that during Deans tenure we have produced (arguably) some world XV players: Beale, Genia, Ioane, Cooper, etc.
How many would make that team now? We are average in all aspects of the game, across all positions. Where once Australian rugby celebrated flash play and special players, now it seems we are strangling that flash and constricting those special players. And if you don't conform, then fuck off.
The Deans attacking game plan looks something like this: Pick, go, stop. Pick, go, stop. Pick, go, stop. Throw wide. Stop. Pick, go, stop. Kick away. Defend.
3 out of 4 on this EOYT? So fucking what. I defy anyone to say we played well on this tour. The Pom game was our best game, but the others were dire. It could have very easily been 1 out of 4. It should have been.
The argument that it wasn't so move on, helps no-one.
/endrant
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
I think our tackling is close the most punishing of any of the top 10 nations - but the overall pattern in defence doesn't look too reliable. It appears to be more of a "last grasp" pattern which allows other teams to get over the gain line reasonably consistently and when up against teams that can offload in tackles we will (and do) get punished. Other teams seem to be able to make breaks against us that we can't against them, but there is generally someone there in cover to make that last tackle.
I don't know what the stats are, but I am inclined to think that we probably don't leak too many tries compared to other nations, so perhaps there is something to playing that kind of defensive structure, but gees, it looks pretty terrible and must wear down the fitness playing that way.
If the game plan is to kick then surely the players are practicing their kicking. I just can't figure out why we are so terrible at it, we ALWAYS kick the ball straight down the throat of the best returner of the ball, we ALWAYS don't chase through on mass and we end up having to defend in our own half again for 5+ phases before we give away a penalty. If that is the game plan, the fine, but FFS as coach he should ensure the players actually follow through on all aspects of the game plan.
Our record against the top 4 nations this year is pretty ordinary I think as well - which is at odds with our 3 ranking. .
In an article I read today Deans mentioned the effect of having the wallaby staff changed mid year was a disruption which wreaks of shedding blame to be honest. Acknowledges that there is a problem and then puts the blame for it onto others - very poor form. It is his job to make it work and it hasn't been.
I would be interested in knowing how many tries per game have been scored by the wallabies each season of the professional era and would be surprised if this wasn't the lowest. If it is, that combined with a pretty much everything else would indicate that he should be removed.
I expect he will therefore be kept on until the next World Cup.
I don't know what the stats are, but I am inclined to think that we probably don't leak too many tries compared to other nations, so perhaps there is something to playing that kind of defensive structure, but gees, it looks pretty terrible and must wear down the fitness playing that way.
If the game plan is to kick then surely the players are practicing their kicking. I just can't figure out why we are so terrible at it, we ALWAYS kick the ball straight down the throat of the best returner of the ball, we ALWAYS don't chase through on mass and we end up having to defend in our own half again for 5+ phases before we give away a penalty. If that is the game plan, the fine, but FFS as coach he should ensure the players actually follow through on all aspects of the game plan.
Our record against the top 4 nations this year is pretty ordinary I think as well - which is at odds with our 3 ranking. .
In an article I read today Deans mentioned the effect of having the wallaby staff changed mid year was a disruption which wreaks of shedding blame to be honest. Acknowledges that there is a problem and then puts the blame for it onto others - very poor form. It is his job to make it work and it hasn't been.
I would be interested in knowing how many tries per game have been scored by the wallabies each season of the professional era and would be surprised if this wasn't the lowest. If it is, that combined with a pretty much everything else would indicate that he should be removed.
I expect he will therefore be kept on until the next World Cup.
Lior
Herbert Moran (7)
I know Deans is staying and I vehemently disagree with it.
We've been lucky to win the games we've won. This year we didn't win one game decisively. Deans defended the lackluster backline by saying tries weren't everything. That's fine to say that but it was to defend HIS backline selections and HIS tactics. Both which were not yielding results. Let's not forget who is the backs coach. Deans should hire a backs coach because they are bloody poor right now and not having substantial attacking value in the slightest. Considering how our backline performed in 2010 for instance it is incredibly disapointing.
Deans can't gel the team. In 2009 and 2010 and 2011 the problem was closing out tests. Now the problem is starting tests.
Deans ends the year with reasonable results on paper. Yes I accept the fact that he suffered a huge injury crisis, but quite frankly it doesn't excuse his inexplicable selections and backline tactics.
I think if next year he fails to win either the Tri Nations, Bledisloe Cup or the Lions series then I think he and Michael Hawker ought to resign. But it's a little early to talk about resignations because arguably his resignation would have been acceptable anytime this year preferably after losing to Scotland. The time for excuses is over, god knows Deans has made them over the last 4 diabolical years.
Hawker, Deans and O'Neil have treated the Australian Rugby landscape with such contempt over the last few years. Whether it's Deans contractual arrangements or it's his performance or it's the sheer revenue raising. The sad thing is it looks more and more likely we are stuck with an indecisive board, an incompetent coach and we've had a CEO who is completely divorced from reality. Hopefully we see some results next year.
I hope I'm wrong but history is on my side.
We've been lucky to win the games we've won. This year we didn't win one game decisively. Deans defended the lackluster backline by saying tries weren't everything. That's fine to say that but it was to defend HIS backline selections and HIS tactics. Both which were not yielding results. Let's not forget who is the backs coach. Deans should hire a backs coach because they are bloody poor right now and not having substantial attacking value in the slightest. Considering how our backline performed in 2010 for instance it is incredibly disapointing.
Deans can't gel the team. In 2009 and 2010 and 2011 the problem was closing out tests. Now the problem is starting tests.
Deans ends the year with reasonable results on paper. Yes I accept the fact that he suffered a huge injury crisis, but quite frankly it doesn't excuse his inexplicable selections and backline tactics.
I think if next year he fails to win either the Tri Nations, Bledisloe Cup or the Lions series then I think he and Michael Hawker ought to resign. But it's a little early to talk about resignations because arguably his resignation would have been acceptable anytime this year preferably after losing to Scotland. The time for excuses is over, god knows Deans has made them over the last 4 diabolical years.
Hawker, Deans and O'Neil have treated the Australian Rugby landscape with such contempt over the last few years. Whether it's Deans contractual arrangements or it's his performance or it's the sheer revenue raising. The sad thing is it looks more and more likely we are stuck with an indecisive board, an incompetent coach and we've had a CEO who is completely divorced from reality. Hopefully we see some results next year.
I hope I'm wrong but history is on my side.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
He will want to be coaching pro bono then as the ARU will be broke and playing in empty stadia except for a few "true believers". Saying that he could well afford to do so after having defrauded the Australian Rugby public for the last 5 years pretending he actually has a clue about what he is doing, and there is actually a cohesive plan.
emuarse
Chilla Wilson (44)
The problem for Robbie Deans, is that when/if he gets the big hook, where does he go?
I doubt if any rugby team in NZ would want him today - nor here.
He'd probably find himself on the rubbish heap like Connolly after his stint as the Wallabies coach.
So of course he'll hang in there as long as possible. And as a 'dead man walking', his own performance would have to be effected.
It wouldn't have surprised me at all if before the last RWC, that he hadn't whispered in JON's ear that WHEN he won the cup, he would replace Henry as All Blacks coach, causing JON to press the panic button , and offer Deans the extension.
So, 'when you're on a good thing, stick to it'.
I doubt if any rugby team in NZ would want him today - nor here.
He'd probably find himself on the rubbish heap like Connolly after his stint as the Wallabies coach.
So of course he'll hang in there as long as possible. And as a 'dead man walking', his own performance would have to be effected.
It wouldn't have surprised me at all if before the last RWC, that he hadn't whispered in JON's ear that WHEN he won the cup, he would replace Henry as All Blacks coach, causing JON to press the panic button , and offer Deans the extension.
So, 'when you're on a good thing, stick to it'.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
My major problem with Deans is that he has had 5 years and the team too often looks like they met 5 days ago. 5 years is a long time to have an international team, particularly if those five years aren't exactly littered with great successes. He'll be coaching the Lions series, but if the ARU thinks another 2 years will magically make everything better then they've been asleep for the last 5.
dudebudstud
Ward Prentice (10)
I don't think Deans is a bad coach, but his results have been lackluster. And by that I don't just mean his win/loss record. I am more concerned with what he has gotten out of his players. The team has seemed stagnant over TRC and the EOYT.
I will give Deans this though- he has suffered a horror run of injuries to key players, and that did affect the team's ability to play attractive rugby. They did reasonably well considering who was out. Don't discount the loss of Pocock, O'Connor, Cooper, Horwill, Genia.
If you think back to the days of Connolly, one of the big complaints was that he implemented a strict game plan, that stifled the creativity and decision making of the players. Then Deans came in and put forward the "play what's in front of you" mentality and this was praised. For awhile there the Wallabies produced some attractive, attacking rugby. Was it 2010 Tri-nations/ EOYT that they put up 3 or 4 tries in the first half against SA and NZ(but then fell apart in the second half), and then demolished the French?
A few positive things to consider:
- the Wallabies have won the Tri-nations, finished 3rd in the RWC, and are in the top tier of Rugby nations in the world.
-With a depleted squad they had a winning record on their EOYT, although most were close.
Negative things to consider:
- consistency from match to match isn't there. You aren't sure which team is going to show up.
- the losses to Samoa and Scotland were embarrassing
-Australia will always measure itself against how well they do against the All Blacks, and the fans won't be happy until the Wallabies are a threat in every game against NZ.
-The off-field issues have become a major distraction. I think the ARU needs to implement a social media policy for it's players and squash some of the egos among younger players.
-the criticism of Deans as a Kiwi has bordered on xenophobia. It doesn't take a native coach to get the best out of an Australian team. Foreign coaches have done well with many international teams, and players(including Wallabies) have done well playing for countries that they weren't necessarily born in.
I would say give him until after the Lions tour and Rugby Championship with a full healthy squad to decide. If he can produce a series victory against the Lions, put in a more convincing result against NZ in the TRC, and do so with attractive rugby then he should be allowed to continue.
I will give Deans this though- he has suffered a horror run of injuries to key players, and that did affect the team's ability to play attractive rugby. They did reasonably well considering who was out. Don't discount the loss of Pocock, O'Connor, Cooper, Horwill, Genia.
If you think back to the days of Connolly, one of the big complaints was that he implemented a strict game plan, that stifled the creativity and decision making of the players. Then Deans came in and put forward the "play what's in front of you" mentality and this was praised. For awhile there the Wallabies produced some attractive, attacking rugby. Was it 2010 Tri-nations/ EOYT that they put up 3 or 4 tries in the first half against SA and NZ(but then fell apart in the second half), and then demolished the French?
A few positive things to consider:
- the Wallabies have won the Tri-nations, finished 3rd in the RWC, and are in the top tier of Rugby nations in the world.
-With a depleted squad they had a winning record on their EOYT, although most were close.
Negative things to consider:
- consistency from match to match isn't there. You aren't sure which team is going to show up.
- the losses to Samoa and Scotland were embarrassing
-Australia will always measure itself against how well they do against the All Blacks, and the fans won't be happy until the Wallabies are a threat in every game against NZ.
-The off-field issues have become a major distraction. I think the ARU needs to implement a social media policy for it's players and squash some of the egos among younger players.
-the criticism of Deans as a Kiwi has bordered on xenophobia. It doesn't take a native coach to get the best out of an Australian team. Foreign coaches have done well with many international teams, and players(including Wallabies) have done well playing for countries that they weren't necessarily born in.
I would say give him until after the Lions tour and Rugby Championship with a full healthy squad to decide. If he can produce a series victory against the Lions, put in a more convincing result against NZ in the TRC, and do so with attractive rugby then he should be allowed to continue.
T
Train Without a Station
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I would be happy if we met JON's original KPI of 75% winning ratio. In doing that, there would still be room for losses to the All Blacks in NZ and South Africa in SA. I think that is fair for a team supposedly ranked 2nd and 3rd in the world.
But this was the man brought here to deliver us the trophies, and barring the Tri Nations in a World Cup year, he hasn't jagged us the big 3.
But this was the man brought here to deliver us the trophies, and barring the Tri Nations in a World Cup year, he hasn't jagged us the big 3.
I think a lot of Kiwi's would welcome him back with open arms, especially around Christchurch. They seem to think it's an issue with Australian rugby and the players just aren't up to what Deans wants them to do. I don't think he'll get a go at the AB's but a super gig wouldn't be out of the question. Also a few teams in Europe would be keen for his services.
I would be very surprised if Deans isn't able to get a head coaching position in either Super Rugby or in Europe after his time at the Wallabies ends.
I don't think the negative opinion of Australian fans is really reflected by foreign rugby fans.
I also think that if Deans beats the Lions and has a reasonable 2013, he will be coaching us at the 2015 RWC.
I don't think the negative opinion of Australian fans is really reflected by foreign rugby fans.
I also think that if Deans beats the Lions and has a reasonable 2013, he will be coaching us at the 2015 RWC.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...eapfrog-mckenzie/story-e6frg7o6-1226532504538
Seems all Cheika needs to do is improve on the Tahs 11th place finish to push McKenzie out of the Wallaby job.
Anything in it?
Seems all Cheika needs to do is improve on the Tahs 11th place finish to push McKenzie out of the Wallaby job.
Anything in it?
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
The silly season is upon us. Where is the fast-forward-to-February button when you need it?
Lior
Herbert Moran (7)
If that has any bit of truthfulness to it then the whole board should sack themselves. I swear the ARU Board is out to appease their personalities as opposed to oversee the development of sound rugby administration.
Badger
Bill McLean (32)
Really? I'm looking forward to seeing how the Tahs go under the coaching of Michael Cheika in 2013. I reckon he could do a Link and stay with the Tahs for a couple of years to finish what he set out to do. At least, I hope so.
Sad if Link was not considered due to his QLD connections. But hey, it's Australia rugby so who knows?
Based on what we have seen in the last 18 months, what a horrid thought!
Sad if Link was not considered due to his QLD connections. But hey, it's Australia rugby so who knows?
Based on what we have seen in the last 18 months, what a horrid thought!
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