G&GR GRASSROOTS RUGBY THINK TANK

[RugbyFuture]

There was a really good on thought movement back before I joined G&GR on the roar (I know, but heed me out) bay35pablo had a big roll as well as a few others called grassroots rugby australia. There's lots that can be done, its not just the grassroots that are screwed, we all know that, we need to kick out the old and bring in the new altogether. new ideas, new movements, new strategy and management. its not only from the top down but there is certainly a factor of that.

One big thing I notice between now and back in the late 90's and early naughties was the high publicity sponsorship the ARU had in weet-bix and powerade which they don't have now, its a commercial part which benefits both parties because it gets rugby into the everyday scene of watching tv.


....someone should also take down the junior league sign on concord oval, it pisses me off every time I pass it, that's a rugby field, they should put that sign on birch grove or something.....

 

[Newbie]

I know others have said it and I will repeat it again! Sevens Rugby is the way to go! Why?

Firstly, the brand is soon going to be associated with the most coveted sporting award in the world, 'Olympic Gold'!

Secondly, rugby per se needs to tap into the ever growing outer suburbs of Sydney and Brisbane. There is a wealth of talent here and league knows it (and so too did the AFL not to long ago). Needless to say such areas are well entrenched with league. This being the case most schools cannot muster 15 boys (or girls for that matter) to form a proper rugby team, but they sure as hell can get 10 together!

Such tournaments are easy to organise and not that expensive. They can also be done on a regular basis. There are no complicated rules to learn, and the technical aspects of the 15 a side game which can somewhat act as a deterrent to most schools forming teams does not exist to the same extent in sevens!

Sevens promotes itself! It's fast and exciting and even kids with the attention spans of gnats are not perturbed! There are four years to go until Brazil so please don't tell me it would be that hard to sell this dream to a young 15 year old greater western Sydney!

Now given that this will be school based to start with, there should be no issue with getting cooperation (admin and supervision and the like). Sevens as an introduction; It's a start on the right pathway at least!

 

[TSR]

A couple of points that I would like to add my agreement to -
- the use of sevens to introduce more people to rugby
- the need to target young players. It is something that I think AFL has done really well. There is definitely now a junior base of kids playing AFL after being introduced through Auskick and this is feeding through to older ages in Rockhampton - traditionally a very pro league area

I also think that at as a feeder to the top level (in Qld anyway) regional areas appear to be ignored. Every year half a dozen or more kids leave school in Rockhampton and take up NRL scholarships after being on development programs for several years. Many go on to be successful professionals. I am not aware of any kids who finish high school outside the SE corner of Qld & get picked up by rugby development programs

Can I also those in the know how much effort is being made to build the club comps in Perth & Melbourne (I don't mention ACT because I gather from comments here the club comp there is already pretty healthy). I am not sure they will ever match the NSW & Qld comps, but raising those comps to the level where the can consistantly feed new players into the Super rugby pool each year would seem to me a big priority in terms of broadening our pool of talent.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I know others have said it and I will repeat it again! Sevens Rugby is the way to go! Why?

Firstly, the brand is soon going to be associated with the most coveted sporting award in the world, 'Olympic Gold'!

Secondly, rugby per se needs to tap into the ever growing outer suburbs of Sydney and Brisbane. There is a wealth of talent here and league knows it (and so too did the AFL not to long ago). Needless to say such areas are well entrenched with league. This being the case most schools cannot muster 15 boys (or girls for that matter) to form a proper rugby team, but they sure as hell can get 10 together!

Such tournaments are easy to organise and not that expensive. They can also be done on a regular basis. There are no complicated rules to learn, and the technical aspects of the 15 a side game which can somewhat act as a deterrent to most schools forming teams does not exist to the same extent in sevens!

Sevens promotes itself! It's fast and exciting and even kids with the attention spans of gnats are not perturbed! There are four years to go until Brazil so please don't tell me it would be that hard to sell this dream to a young 15 year old greater western Sydney!

Now given that this will be school based to start with, there should be no issue with getting cooperation (admin and supervision and the like). Sevens as an introduction; It's a start on the right pathway at least!

It should be focused on the Spring/Summer months (terms 1 and 4) as not to clash with other similar codes. The key will be that it will need to be organised by the Unions. Many schools no longer actively participate in inter-school sports due to the administrative requirements in organising such events. The nature of Sevens does somewhat help as it Gala day nature tends to be the method of choice for those who still participate on an inter-school basis.

Importantly, I also think it needs to be structured carefully in a progressive nature to ensure that once they get involved in the 7s format that we can transition them seamlessly into the 15 man. This would mean that over time 10s would need to be included in say High Schools eventually on to 15s in senior school.

 

[en_force_er]

I think you guys need to be aware on the physical attrition of basically a whole year of contact sports.

You can't play 7s in the summer then 15s in the winter, the average rugby playing teenager (not the future professional athletes) would get all kinds of injuries.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Not to mention all the forwards who wouldnt be able to do sevens....

 

[Newbie]

I think you guys need to be aware on the physical attrition of basically a whole year of contact sports.

You can't play 7s in the summer then 15s in the winter, the average rugby playing teenager (not the future professional athletes) would get all kinds of injuries.

Mate I'm coming from a position where the target market does not play rugby! Please refer to my post again.

In addition, I am not just focusing on teenagers (however they should be the immediate interest with Brazil on the horizon). I am talking about targeting children 9 years and upwards from league dominated areas that would never have considered playing rugby!

I have had the personal experience of a son converting from league to union after his league orientated school was invited to compete in the Southern Districts 10's (which WCR alludes to above- stepping stones). I believe his age group was the Matt Rogers Cup, in which his school team was runner-up. He and several other mates were hooked and soon joined the local rugby club! And there they stayed for many years until they discovered that evil and cursed vice we know as females!

 

[en_force_er]

Mate I'm coming from a position where the target market does not play rugby! Please refer to my post again.

In addition, I am not just focusing on teenagers (however they should be the immediate interest with Brazil on the horizon). I am talking about targeting children 9 years and upwards from league dominated areas that would never have considered playing rugby!

I have had the personal experience of a son converting from league to union after his league orientated school was invited to compete in the Southern Districts 10's (which WCR alludes to above- stepping stones). I believe his age group was the Matt Rogers Cup, in which his school team was runner-up. He and several other mates were hooked and soon joined the local rugby club! And there they stayed for many years until they discovered that evil and cursed vice we know as females!

Okay, in that case reread my post. Physical attrition is not exclusive to rugby (nor to teenagers) and there's plenty of it in league or most winter codes bar soccer.

There is a reason that you don't find many kids playing physical summer sports (think touch, cricket, and in other countries baseball) and that reason is the weather is completely unsuited for it. Now, add in the physical attrition element and you'll see it's an upfield battle.

Is there a window for a small amount of 7s or 10s just before or just after winter sport during term 2 or 3? Probably. In the summer (terms 1 or 2)? Probably not.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Summer = Twilight or Night 7's at a local park or for those blessed to be near the Seaside in progressive States with Daylight Savings, how about Twilight Beach 7's (5pm - 7pm game time, BBQ then a dip, - Paradise)

 

[Newbie]

I didn't say anything about timing! As far as I'm concerned play sevens or tens during winter. Seriously who cares as long as the kids are getting exposed to rugby!

With that said the point of 'Brain Storming' is to encourage as many ideas as possible; I made a suggestion and encountered negativity! No problem I won't make another!!!!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hey Newbie,

You left your bat over here. Do you want me to bring it over to you?

 

[Newbie]

Hey Newbie,

You left your bat over here. Do you want me to bring it over to you?

And my ball ... ... ... Don't Forget to bring my ball as well

And while your there can you also bring my glass of beer; it's the one that is half full!!!!

Cheers HJ!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

No. You took the ball with you.

I think you accidentally left the bat behind as a potential face saving exercise for both parties.

 

[en_force_er]

I didn't say anything about timing! As far as I'm concerned play sevens or tens during winter. Seriously who cares as long as the kids are getting exposed to rugby!

With that said the point of 'Brain Storming' is to encourage as many ideas as possible; I made a suggestion and encountered negativity! No problem I won't make another!!!!

You didn't suggest summer but was floated in association with your idea but someone else.

Now if if I was to say "that'll never work" and not explain why, that'd be 'negativity'. But I didn't do that I offered an opinion which you are free to rebut.

If you don't want your idea seriously thought about and discussed you can keep it to yourself. If you want to post it in a discussion forum I will critique it in a thoughtful way.

Don't decry serious devil's advocate style discussion as 'negativity' as I clearly created considered responses.

No good brainstorming sessions would ever work this way.

 

[Newbie]

You didn't suggest summer but was floated in association with your idea but someone else.

Now if if I was to say "that'll never work" and not explain why, that'd be 'negativity'. But I didn't do that I offered an opinion which you are free to rebut.

If you don't want your idea seriously thought about and discussed you can keep it to yourself. If you want to post it in a discussion forum I will critique it in a thoughtful way.

Don't decry serious devil's advocate style discussion as 'negativity' as I clearly created considered responses.

No good brainstorming sessions would ever work this way.

Ultimately i am going to have to disagree with your comments with respect to physical attrition based upon what the ARU deems to be an acceptable level of daily rugby for most junior tournaments like state and regional championships (i.e. 100 minutes per day in addition to the rugby they already play on weekends throughout the season).

Essentially it can only used as a guide, however I don't think that two seven-a-side tournaments added to a school sporting curriculum (i.e. three games per team per tournament with each game going for 10 minutes) is going to cause serious detriment to a child's health. Especially where such kids are not even playing rugby! For example league does not have state and regional club championships. Remember the proposition is about encouraging non-participants to the game, and as everyone seems to agree in this thread, it has to be done at an early age.

Moreover, after a careful perusal of the pages within this thread I am yet to see a proposal from you. As a consequence could I respectfully ask that you project your high powered acuity inward and put forward a possible answer to the $64,000 question? Accordingly that is what think tanks and/or brainstorming is about; putting ideas forward!

 

[Tom Ando]

Can I just ask how many Junior 7's comps exist in NSW and ACT? I know of one that I played in a few years ago. I looked for it on the internet a few weeks ago and this is all that shows up... http://www.northsjuniors.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=66018 . How does that help anyone? I have tried to find out if under 18's can play in the Kiama Sevens but got no response. As many have already said, Sevens Rugby is the way to go and I believe that! But the ARU aren't really helping the cause I don't think. If there is any information about under 18's Sevens Comps, Rugby is making it hard to find!

 

[RugbyFuture]

Sevens shouldnt be run too much other than an engagement program otherwise it will overcome rugby and one if its greater assets in facilitating those of all athletic types and body sizes.

 

[Newbie]

Tom Ando,

From my understanding the tournament you speak of is the only one in existence for junior clubs. From all reports it is a bloody great tournament as its participation rate is very high across all ages.

I am also aware that Scots (Bellevue Hill) conduct a school sevens tournament, however it is my understanding which is by invitation only (but I could be wrong).

Other than that the only other sevens comp that I am aware of was that conducted by the ARU early this year which i beleive was won by the league boys from Keebra Park on the Gold Coast.

No matter which way you look at it sevens is going to become very popular given its Olympic status and in my personal opinion the ARU (and the respective affiliates) need to exploit the same.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Sevens shouldnt be run too much other than an engagement program otherwise it will overcome rugby and one if its greater assets in facilitating those of all athletic types and body sizes.

It should be part of a greater integrated development plan. I see 7s as the ideal platform to get Rugby into schools at the Primary level. It could be organised in the Gala Day format say every fortnight drawing from schools across designated regions. In High School (particularly the Junior Section) 10s would be used to include as many students as possible and develop the forward play element. In the Senior section introduce the 15 man format in full. The goal should be to get one team each year from every school.

An important element will be to get the clubs information out there to provide further information to give the kids the option and knowledge about club rugby outside of schools.

Ultimately, what I'm suggesting isn't a quick fix. It's more about the medium to long term in developing a playing and supporter base.

 

[Refabit]

I support the 7's program as a great entree to the 15 man game. Specialist skills (scrum & line-out) don't preclude participation and a lesser number of players are required.
And its bloody good fun for the kids!
Great way to involve the public school kids.
Its also a reasonable refereeing pathway as its easier to spot infringements with less players.
Only trouble is the dearth of tournaments - at least here in SEQ.