France v Australia, Saturday 19 November

[Scotty]

What are you talking about. What bullshit? he's come out and said he wants to give out of form players a shot and throw them in the mix with some new young talent, whilst resting solid first XVers.

What part of that is Bullshit? He said he never promised Korobiete shit and true to form he hasn't been picked in the only game he might have been.

You're just taking an easy pop at Cheika for doing exactly what every person on this forum was predicting he would do: prioritize the Grand Slam.

The bullshit part is the stories he is making up to cover his true intentions, ie:

- 'we wanted to get Koroibete into rugby' (or he was promised a spot on tour)
- 'we want Luke to be angry he missed out' (or we know what he offers and always intended to bring him in for this game, while I couldn't give him a squad spot due to the Koroibete promise)
- 'we aren't resting players, we are making choices' (or we see the grand slam games as more important so rather than having the balls to rest some players during those games we always intended on making mass changes for this game)

I just want some honestly instead of the made up reasons we are getting at the moment!

 

[barbarian]

I just don't buy it Scotty. Say all you want about Cheika, but I really don't think one of his issues is 'lacking honesty'.

Korobeite probably gains a lot more training with the Wallabies than he does in a helter-skelter Baabaas environment. Morahan needs game time, so it makes sense for him to go to the Baabaas.

I just don't think your cynicism is particularly justified here.
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[Scotty]

Couldn't Koroibete be training with the Rebels in preseason or getting some one on one specialist coaching? Since when is a wallaby squad a place to convert a league player?

Do you think he is being honest when he says he 'isn't resting players'? Surely that is indefensible.

 

[Twoilms]

If anything Cheika is too honest. Think post-match Bled 3.

Where does he say he isn't resting players. Besides, i doubt that particular piece of spin is for our benefit. How would you feel if your boss said to you 'you aren't good enough mate, but i need to keep these guys on ice so im playing you'. Some motivation.

“I think physically, it’s not huge, we gave some guys who have had big loads some time off during the week,” Cheika said.

 

[barbarian]

Couldn't Koroibete be training with the Rebels in preseason or getting some one on one specialist coaching? Since when is a wallaby squad a place to convert a league player?

Do you think he is being honest when he says he 'isn't resting players'? Surely that is indefensible.

Look the Korobeite thing is a whole discussion in itself. I don't think he should be on the tour, but I don't think it's because of some Faustian pact Cheika made to lure him to rugby. Cheik loves his leaguies, and has a long track record rushing them into his set-ups.

He said he's managing workloads, and blooding young players. Why make his own players think they're second stringers? I really don't think Cheika's honesty is the issue here at all.
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[Lindommer]

Do you think he is being honest when he says he 'isn't resting players'? Surely that is indefensible.

He's not, he's "rotating players". For good reason. See Pfitzy's post #250.

 

[Pfitzy]

 

[Scotty]

Look the Korobeite thing is a whole discussion in itself. I don't think he should be on the tour, but I don't think it's because of some Faustian pact Cheika made to lure him to rugby. Cheik loves his leaguies, and has a long track record rushing them into his set-ups.

He said he's managing workloads, and blooding young players. Why make his own players think they're second stringers? I really don't think Cheika's honesty is the issue here at all.
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I'll leave it after this because it seems most people are happy to let him off with these poor excuses.

One point I'd like to make is that either Cheika is not that smart or he doesn't think the public and his players are that smart.

Not one of us, nor the players in question are stupid enough to think they are not 'second stringers'. Their motivation is to become first choice players over time - not being motivated by some ludicrous belief they are already there and now just getting their rotation in!

Lastly I would be very surprised if he hasn't already picked the 23 for Ireland (and that expect for probably Skelton it is the same as Scotland). That is something he won't (and shouldn't) share with the players he is trying to motivate to become 'first choice'.

 

[Micheal]

I'll leave it after this because it seems most people are happy to let him off with these poor excuses.

One point I'd like to make is that either Cheika is not that smart or he doesn't think the public and his players are that smart.

Not one of us, nor the players in question are stupid enough to think they are not 'second stringers'. Their motivation is to become first choice players over time - not being motivated by some ludicrous belief they are already there and now just getting their rotation in!

Lastly I would be very surprised if he hasn't already picked the 23 for Ireland (and that expect for probably Skelton it is the same as Scotland). That is something he won't (and shouldn't) share with the players he is trying to motivate to become 'first choice'.

It appears your overdue for a weekend.

As Noel Gallagher said, you're coming off like "a man with a fork in a world full of soup".

I don't think Cheika is stupid (very successful businessman and coach at all levels - speaks 3 or 4 languages) nor do I think he views the players / rugby public as stupid. That view is utterly unfounded.


Stop getting angry about bad outcomes before said bad outcome happens (e.g. Ireland).

 

[Twoilms]

Fuck that cat looks unimpressed.

 

[Hawko]

Totally agree.

Only players who are out of form or played too much should be rotated.

There is no case for Sio, Kepu, Arnold, Timani to be rested. McMahon may have been the preferred option but Timani has played a lot better starting at 8 than McMahon ever has.

Hodge needs more time at 12 to form a combination with TK. He has played all of 2 games there. Why can't QC (Quade Cooper) have some time with Hodge at 12?

The selected team is too light on experience. Too many plays their first starts, 5 of them.
Latu, Ala'alatoa, Godwin, Naivalu, Morohan.

There is no established combination in the front row which adds more pressure in how inexperienced it is.

There is no combination between 10 and 12 or 12 and 13.

The back 3 will be bombarded and have only 1 kicker and it is also very light on experience and no combinations.

QC (Quade Cooper) dropping back to help won't solve the issue.

Is QC (Quade Cooper) the goal kicker? Does Godwin kick goals, does Morohan?

Anyway the tah haters have their wish only 1 starting tah player.

The NZ team play one less game on the EOYT than we do and yet Hanson rested a huge chunk of his best team against Italy. What does he understand about player fatigue that keyboard coaches do not? Do kiwi's consider that Hanson has cheapened the jersey by playing the B team even though the A team lost the previous game?

 

[PeterK]

I don't believe that making mass changes provides anyone the opportunity to judge any of the players accurately.

I have seen too many new teams spend an entire preseason together and then run out for the first match and look like they have only just met to think that any solid conclusions will be derived from this many changes.

Each individual is responsible for their own performances and for their choices.

Sure this many changes means there are less combinations and less team cohesion and that is a good reason why the team may lose.

However that is no excuse for QC (Quade Cooper) to make the wrong decisions, kick poorly, pass poorly.

QC (Quade Cooper) has the opportunity to play well , no excuses.

Same with Morahon etc.

I prefer QC (Quade Cooper) and Pocock over Foley and Hooper but I am not going to make excuses for them.

If the forwards don't provide front foot ball them you can compare QC (Quade Cooper) performances to Foley against the scots and a lot of other games.

It seems people want their cake and to it eat too.

If they play well demand their inclusion against Ireland if they play poorly blame all the changes.

 

[PeterK]

The NZ team play one less game on the EOYT than we do and yet Hanson rested a huge chunk of his best team against Italy. What does he understand about player fatigue that keyboard coaches do not? Do kiwi's consider that Hanson has cheapened the jersey by playing the B team even though the A team lost the previous game?

Big difference.

AB's still picked a team to win.

He rested players against Italy the worst team in the 6N's.

AB's have a lot more depth.

IMO winning comes first.

Also I said some players should have been rested and some out of form players replaced.

There are too many changes against a very good team.

 

[PeterK]

Scotty you sound like a man with a grudge looking for something to pin it on.

You are spoiling to find something wrong with what Cheika has said and then come up with in your view are his true intentions with no proof whatsoever but your suppositions.

Cheika calls it as he sees it. He may forget the exact words he has used before , well frankly he doesn't care about the public appearances and media profile that much.

 

[fatprop]

Big difference.

AB's still picked a team to win.

So the Wobs have picked a team to lose?

 

[Twoilms]

I'm looking forward to seeing big Taqele pull a few Samoan side steps on tiring French defenders. Should be a sight to behold.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Cheika is damned when he does and damned when he doesn't.

"If" Cheika rotated more in the early tests there would have been complaints about his continual tinkering stopping the team developing cohesion.

"If" Cheika makes too many changes, he is devaluing the jersey

Cheika could be shitting golden eggs and there would be complaints that they aren't big enough

Yes I did not expect this many changes but will sit on the fence on cheika making these changes as yes I could see if he chopped and changed week to week how people on here would be out for blood. Opportunity to see how these players selected go and on long tour like this I can at least see why he may have done this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RugbyReg]

So the Wobs have picked a team to lose?

No. he's picked a team to play. It's clear his priority is the Grand Slam and part of me thinks he's trying to rectify the stain on his reputation that had occurred this year. The Eddie Jones taunting through the Pom series. The Hanson and NZ Herald fun.

To me it seems that Cheika has his focus solely on the Grand Slam so that is name can join Alan Jones in the Wallaby record books.

In the end he's making his bed and he will sleep in it. We may well win this weekend (it'd surprise me) but has MC is putting all his eggs on the Irish and English basket then a loss is unacceptable.

I'm sorry but I just can't see it any other way.

 

[Quick Hands]

Fair go.

I am not part of the flower mafia and have wanted Cooper starting and Hooper on the bench.

However it has to be recognised there are a lot of anti tah people there who want most of the tah players out.

They have their wish. So if the replacements play poorly or not as well the incumbents they surely should own that and say the tah players deserev their spots.

You're fairly new here PK - there's many a poster who sees a Waratah conspiracy behind every decision. Best to ignore them.

 

[PeterK]

So the Wobs have picked a team to lose?

The focus was to rest a lot of players for the Ireland and England games.

If it means a loss to France so be it, winning this one game was not the priority.

Sure he can argue he still thinks the team will win but it isn't the best team he could come up with even taking into account the workloads.