Force vs B&I Lions - Wed. 5 Jun

[daz]

So a chance to come fourth in the Aussie conference instead of fifth outweighs an opportunity afforded once every twelve years to play in front of a sold-out arena full of people just waiting to take up the game.

Yes. Because a successful franchise (i.e. a winning one) will do shit loads more good in the long run.

Yes, the scheduling sucks, but a performance against the Lions would do the franchise a lot more good than one against the Tahs, in my opinion.

Respectfully disagree, Stu. The Lions are in and out, like any good circus. Winning another Super Rugby game though? Priceless. What good does beating the Lions do if you are mired on the bottom of the conference?

 

[Ash]

Respectfully disagree, Stu. The Lions are in and out, like any good circus. Winning another Super Rugby game though? Priceless. What good does beating the Lions do if you are mired on the bottom of the conference?

I reckon that beating the Lions would generate a LOT more publicity than winning a Super Rugby game. It'd be a massive upset (even more so for the bottom ranked team) and get a lot more press time.

Of course, no matter what team the Force field they will be rank outsiders.

In the end, that pack is not far off their best, but it will still be soundly beaten by the international level lions, but not by as much as a real B team would have been. The bigger problem is the backline.

The last Lions tour we fielded teams that got 80 - 90 thrashings by the Lions. A once in a lifetime chance for the amatuers, but now with 5 SupeRugby clubs we should be doing better.

Would love to have seen an Aus A game, too. It's the one non-test game that we won last Lions series.

 

[Blue]

They need to convince their local fans that they are building something positive and have what it takes to compete in 2014. Good showings against the Tahs and Brumbies are vital in showing that.

Ultimately good performances there will mean more than being beaten by 20 instead of 40 against the Lions.

What will carry the most favour with fans?

Push the Lions close in an epic battle or even possible upset them vs. whatever happens in the Tahs game, which is a dead rubber?

There are just so many arguments for going all out against the Lions.

 

[qwerty51]

Stop calling it a dead rubber, just because they don't a chance to make the finals doesn't make it a dead rubber.

 

[Braveheart81]

If you lose by 40 instead of 60+ against the Lions with your full strength side and then lose to the massively undermanned Tahs team four days later because you have to rest half your players you potentially end up in a worse position.

I think it is hard to know what the best option is for the Force but I highly doubt Foley made the decision on his own purely because he wants to beat his former team.

 

[barbarian]

What will carry the most favour with fans?

Push the Lions close in an epic battle or even possible upset them vs. whatever happens in the Tahs game, which is a dead rubber?

There are just so many arguments for going all out against the Lions.

What Braveheart said. Obviously the optimal scenario is the Force beat the Lions by 40, but you need to be realistic.
.

 

[Ruggo]

You never know with these sorts of games. Munster was never meant to beat the All Blacks. I can have a fair guess at what WA rugby fans didn't want and that is to pay good money to see their team on an oval represented by a bunch of blow ins.

The Lions game is a massive deal and WA rugby is crapping on their fans if they are not going to have a fair dinkum crack at it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Foley is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't here. In the end, he's judged on his record in Super rugby so I can understand him holding a few blokes back for Sunday. The pack looks OK actually, but the backs will be well and truly outclassed by the Lions. I don't expect the boys to win -- you aren't going to beat a home nations all star team if you can't beat other provincial sides -- but it would want to be a better result than last a WA based team took these guys on.

 

[Bowside]

History doesn't remember a win against a team you play 2-3 times a year, every year. But beat the Lions and people will still talk about it 30 years later.

I'm disappointed as a rugby fan, and I'd be downright pissed off if I was a force fan.

 

[Andrew Findlay]

I don't get why the Force start telling everyone how much pain they are going to put the lions through. A- The Ref is alerted to watch closely and may prejudice 50:50 calls. B- The lions are alerted and will either provoke to get penalties or front up and get the '99 call' back. C- Why are you talking to newspapers about how scary you are and not training. D-Any foul play against Lions players will be judged against bellicose statements and could increase bans etc.

 

[Bowside]

Yes. Because a successful franchise (i.e. a winning one) will do shit loads more good in the long run.



Respectfully disagree, Stu. The Lions are in and out, like any good circus. Winning another Super Rugby game though? Priceless. What good does beating the Lions do if you are mired on the bottom of the conference?

You're joking.

I love super rugby, but I'd trade any win Queensland has had this year in order to beat the lions.

If you think the tahs game means more to the fans, why not compare the crowd and viewing numbers for a normal force game compared to what they pull for the lions game. (Keeping in mind as well that it is being played on the same night as one of the biggest games in Australian sport, the first Origin Match.)

 

[Shiggins]

Not much to say. I get it. We would o lost anyway. Anyone who thinks it was going to be close with the 1st 15 is on drugs. Look at this lions team. They would push most international test teams let alone the force. Only advantage now is the fact that the lions will take this game very very lightly.

 

[qwerty51]

Push most international Test teams? Lions are the favourites to beat the #3 ranked side in the world away.

 

[daz]

You're joking.

No, I'm not. If I was joking I would have said "a horse walks into a bar. The barman says to the horse, why the long face?"

I love super rugby, but I'd trade any win Queensland has had this year in order to beat the lions.

You would maybe, but I wonder if Link/QRU board shares that philosophy?

What if you missed the finals by a single game? But its all good coz you beat the Lions!

If you think the tahs game means more to the fans, why not compare the crowd and viewing numbers for a normal force game compared to what they pull for the lions game. (Keeping in mind as well that it is being played on the same night as one of the biggest games in Australian sport, the first Origin Match.)

I'm not saying it means more to the fans. I am saying it obviously means more to the Western Force coach and the board to focus their energy on getting another Super Rugby win. Not hard to understand when they only have 3 at the moment.

I have no idea what Foley asked the board in regards instructions, but if I was him, 4 wins, 4th on the Oz conference and a Lions loss beats 3 wins, 5th on the Oz conference and a Lions loss.

But that is just my opinion. There is no right or wrong answer, really.

 

[Bowside]

Granted the force were very long odds, but it really doesn't count for shit when the teams run out on the field.

It's not like the Lions have never lost to a provincial team. And its not like our test ranking stops us losing to minnows like Samoa. Heck, the wallabies lost to munster a couple of years ago.

Anything can happen in a game of rugby.

 

[qwerty51]

Actually we should be discussing why the fuck this is on at the exact same time as origin. I love my rugby and don't watch much league but I'll be watching origin instead.

 

[ChargerWA]

Oh well, at least we get to see DHP have a run around in WA again. That's a good thing to come out of this gutless RugbyWA clusterfuck.

 

[Bowside]

I'm not saying it means more to the fans. I am saying it obviously means more to the Western Force coach and the board to focus their energy on getting another Super Rugby win. Not hard to understand when they only have 3 at the moment.

I have no idea what Foley asked the board in regards instructions, but if I was him, 4 wins, 4th on the Oz conference and a Lions loss beats 3 wins, 5th on the Oz conference and a Lions loss.

But that is just my opinion. There is no right or wrong answer, really.

Do you really think it that black and white to the force board?

I find it hard to believe the difference between sacking a bloke and keeping him on is 1 win in a super rugby game given the context of the week it was played.

They would asses his performance on how the team functioned as a whole, not decimal points on a win-loss ratio.

I suspect the Reds board would see it much the same way.

 

[daz]

Do you really think it that black and white to the force board?

I find it hard to believe the difference between sacking a bloke and keeping him on is 1 win in a super rugby game given the context of the week it was played.

They would asses his performance on how the team functioned as a whole, not decimal points on a win-loss ratio.

I suspect the Reds board would see it much the same way.

Bowside, your argument would make sense to me if it wasn't for history proving you wrong.

Every time anyone talks about coaches, past or present, what is the one thing that gets added after their name in brackets to "rank" them?

W/L percentage.

 

[FiveStarStu]

You're acting as if they're not even playing the match any more.

They're pretty much not. There'll be a Western Force team, but they won't be the Western Force.

I think my reaction is entirely justified for a guy travelling the length of the country to see this game. A belting is only fun for a while.

I maintain that the Force would have gotten a lot more out of maybe being the first Australian provincial team in donkey's to beat the Lions, than bending over against the Lions and maybe running the Tahs close.