Force vs B&I Lions - Wed. 5 Jun
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Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
I completely understand why Foley prioritised the Tahs game but I still can't help feeling disappointed.
Maybe the Force never had a chance even with their best team. But the majority of non-test teams that have beaten the Lions over the years also never had a chance.
A spirited display even in a loss against the Lions would win the Force more fans than beating the Tahs. Even if the Force beat the Tahs at the weekend how many of the players will keep the shirt they either wore or the one they swapped with an opposing player?
Talk up in the NH is that this tour of Aus could be the last one on a guaranteed 12 year rotation and that the review will see the Lions break with the NZ->SA->AUS strict rotation. As a consequence it could be longer than 12 years until the Lions see Aus soil again.
Despite the team the Force has picked I still hope that they give us a really good game. I much prefer watching a close, hard fought game then a one way try fest.
Best of luck to the Force players and fans and here's hoping it's a night you remember for a very long time, regardless of the outcome.
Maybe the Force never had a chance even with their best team. But the majority of non-test teams that have beaten the Lions over the years also never had a chance.
A spirited display even in a loss against the Lions would win the Force more fans than beating the Tahs. Even if the Force beat the Tahs at the weekend how many of the players will keep the shirt they either wore or the one they swapped with an opposing player?
Talk up in the NH is that this tour of Aus could be the last one on a guaranteed 12 year rotation and that the review will see the Lions break with the NZ->SA->AUS strict rotation. As a consequence it could be longer than 12 years until the Lions see Aus soil again.
Despite the team the Force has picked I still hope that they give us a really good game. I much prefer watching a close, hard fought game then a one way try fest.
Best of luck to the Force players and fans and here's hoping it's a night you remember for a very long time, regardless of the outcome.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Bardon, I'd like to see a full strength Force team take on the Lions as well, but the schedule makes a little difficult to do. I also want to see the blokes who do make it out there to have a red hot go and I have no doubt they will.
As far as the Lions concept goes, I'm curious as to the thinking behind breaking with the 12 year cycle? Is there talk that a tour every four years isn't going to happen or that they will drop AUS?
As far as the Lions concept goes, I'm curious as to the thinking behind breaking with the 12 year cycle? Is there talk that a tour every four years isn't going to happen or that they will drop AUS?
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Curious argument. I simply don't grasp how a much smaller number of Force fans would gain more fan satisfaction from beating a totally watered down 'artificial' Tahs Lite team that will never be that weak again vs putting on the very best possible display with their best elite players in front of a much bigger crowd against undiluted world-class rugby opposition that will recur only once every 12 years and thus gain major media and related attention for rugby in WA.
With Foley et al putting up a Force B side with many NSW fly-in players, yet where WARugby and the ARU are soliciting for 40,000 odd fans at higher prices, it's just a totally contradictory policy that's surely an insult to that larger body of punters who certainly would have thought they'd witness the best calibre of players the Force could muster for the event. Instead, for the money, without forewarning, they've been handed a way less than top-grade local attempt at playing this high profile game.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Charger, agree with you, but I don't think it's just about a possible win scenario. IMO, it's just as much about maximising the potential to play with skills and courage and application to get as close to a win as possible, and come away with a passionate, valiant loss that the WA fans could talk of as 'a fantastic effort by the best talent we have that really took it to the Lions and gave us a hell of a match, pride in the local boys'. That type of outcome where a valiant loss is of a type that's actually exciting, encouraging and a great ad for local rugby, vs a possible humiliation with many obviously less than high-calibre players that could fail to deliver intensity, skill and composure in front of a large audience.
D
daz
Guest
RH, relax a bit. It's really not that important and while your passion is unmatched, shouldn't we allow the Force fans to be the outraged demographic in regards this game?
Under-studies come on in place of the marketed "star" at the theatre all the time. Was I disappointed that Tommy Thayer was playing lead guitar on the 1996 KISS reunion tour instead of Ace Frehley? Hell yes, but Tommy knows how to play guitar too, so I just enjoyed what I had.
It's just a relatively meaningless game that will be forgotten just as quickly. People will say they once saw the Lions play, not that the Force lost a chance to get another 500 members. Lots of people will be there and they will surely enjoy themselves.
Me and USARugger have had it out on this issue on the front page.
Have a look and add your 2c.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/force-selection-face-off/
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Have a look and add your 2c.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/force-selection-face-off/
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Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
So is Roach off limits to the Tahs for 2014 if he plays this game?
How does the "blow ins" thing work?
Do they just get a casual match payment, and actual and reasonable expenses or will they need to be contracted to the Force?
Several have suggested that the Tahs should be targeting Roach for a #2 slot in Tahs 2014.
I doubt it means there is any further allegiance to the Force. I certainly hope not anyway. I really want Hugh Roach to have a Tahs EPS contract next year.
USARugger haha no worries.
But here is the scenario those attacking Foley haven't considered (in a world of hypothetical wins and 'valiant defeats'):
The Force lose by 40 to the Lions. They are overawed by the occasion and choke, and are battered in the process. They then field a weakened team against the Tahs, and Betham and co run riot and they win by 25. What does that do for rugby in WA?
I know that is an overly negative scenario, but it needs to be considered along with the overly positive ones. Because it is not the most unlikely scenario, and I think that might be what the Force board and coaches considered as well.
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But here is the scenario those attacking Foley haven't considered (in a world of hypothetical wins and 'valiant defeats'):
The Force lose by 40 to the Lions. They are overawed by the occasion and choke, and are battered in the process. They then field a weakened team against the Tahs, and Betham and co run riot and they win by 25. What does that do for rugby in WA?
I know that is an overly negative scenario, but it needs to be considered along with the overly positive ones. Because it is not the most unlikely scenario, and I think that might be what the Force board and coaches considered as well.
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USARugger
John Thornett (49)
If it wasn't for Origin being on the same night I'd say that the Lions match would be important because people who wouldn't traditionally watch the Force would be tuning in and impressing them could mean a lot to the future of the franchise. The Tahs Force game may get overshadowed by Lions hype so it is a bit of a toss up.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
See Baabaa I don't really think a loss to the tahs is going to change much at the force at all. They are in a rebuilding year, have made heaps of progress in the quality of rugby they are playing, but simply don't have the depth and quality in the squad to be contenders in super rugby.
Everyone knows and accepts this. It's why the team is recruiting so hard for next season.
Likewise everyone knows and accepts the force are probably not going to beat the lions. But the upsides of beating the Lions are invaluable. The stuff that turns people into life time fans.
Not to mention the tradition and sense of occasion involved. If you devalue the contest, you devalue the force brand, and I think thats what they have done.
Everyone knows and accepts this. It's why the team is recruiting so hard for next season.
Likewise everyone knows and accepts the force are probably not going to beat the lions. But the upsides of beating the Lions are invaluable. The stuff that turns people into life time fans.
Not to mention the tradition and sense of occasion involved. If you devalue the contest, you devalue the force brand, and I think thats what they have done.
hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
I agree, I think the decision to play the dirt trackers against the Lions is a poor one. You have got to wonder how Godwin, MMM (if he is in fact right to play), Tessman etc. must feel. If I was them I would have made it quite clear the the chance to play the Lions is one that I want desperately even if it means playing off the bench in the Tahs game (a template used with relative success by SH teams touring up north with a saturday Test and a Tues/Wed mid week game). Poor decision by Foley
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I see it like this, the Force get pasted just about every week of the super rugby year. Don't get me wrong I love it when we win, and I go to every game hoping for the best.
Our biggest weakness is a consistent failure to beat teams that are lower (kings) or even equally ranked to us (Rebels). When this happens year after year you have to be pragmatic about your approach to games. I am fully expecting us to lose against the waratahs this weekend because of our history with them. As I said I am hoping for the best but will not be surprised to see the game slip away in the last 20mins.
That said we have a tendency to ambush highly fancied teams (crusaders, chiefs, reds). I feel we had a real chance here to ambush the Lions and really stick it to them and we have let that slip, over a game I feel we were very long odds to win anyway.
Very disappointing.
I see it like this, the Force get pasted just about every week of the super rugby year. Don't get me wrong I love it when we win, and I go to every game hoping for the best.
Our biggest weakness is a consistent failure to beat teams that are lower (kings) or even equally ranked to us (Rebels). When this happens year after year you have to be pragmatic about your approach to games. I am fully expecting us to lose against the waratahs this weekend because of our history with them. As I said I am hoping for the best but will not be surprised to see the game slip away in the last 20mins.
That said we have a tendency to ambush highly fancied teams (crusaders, chiefs, reds). I feel we had a real chance here to ambush the Lions and really stick it to them and we have let that slip, over a game I feel we were very long odds to win anyway.
Very disappointing.
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
GODWIN IS INJURED PEOPLE THATS WHY HE INST PLAYING
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Glass half full?
But I get what you're saying. If I was a player in the West I would be pissed though.
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
ill give you an example of why this game is important>
i had a genuine interest in how the lions shape up in their first game on aussie soil, ive seen the force win games they shouldnt and i know without a shadow of doubt a small well organised defense can withhold a large disorganized attack.
I would have watched this tonight, but now i wont- and its unlikely im even gunna watch the replay. so there u go force rugby and aru, i watch as much rugby as anyone else i know, i have a better understanding of the game than almost anyone i know and am probably as bigger fan as anyone i know- but tonight ill be watching 5kick... and i dont even want too
i had a genuine interest in how the lions shape up in their first game on aussie soil, ive seen the force win games they shouldnt and i know without a shadow of doubt a small well organised defense can withhold a large disorganized attack.
I would have watched this tonight, but now i wont- and its unlikely im even gunna watch the replay. so there u go force rugby and aru, i watch as much rugby as anyone else i know, i have a better understanding of the game than almost anyone i know and am probably as bigger fan as anyone i know- but tonight ill be watching 5kick... and i dont even want too
If you consider that Godwin and McMeniman are injured for this game, there really aren't that many players being left out.
A couple of regulars are on the bench and Cummins and McCalman are in the Wallabies squad.
Are people that upset that they've been denied the chance to see Sias Ebersohn play?
A couple of regulars are on the bench and Cummins and McCalman are in the Wallabies squad.
Are people that upset that they've been denied the chance to see Sias Ebersohn play?
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
surely if godwin an mcmeniman are fit to play sunday they could have played in till this point the biggest game in their careers
i do not accept that any injury that is keeping them out of tonights game will magically recover in a few days time- these are big tough rugby playing men were talking about.
to almost every player taking the field tonight, this is their world cup final
and foley has thrown the towel in
it is shameful that the force board and the aru has not done something about it. if i had bought a ticket to this expensive game id want my money back as id feel they have breached contract-
i do not accept that any injury that is keeping them out of tonights game will magically recover in a few days time- these are big tough rugby playing men were talking about.
to almost every player taking the field tonight, this is their world cup final
and foley has thrown the towel in
it is shameful that the force board and the aru has not done something about it. if i had bought a ticket to this expensive game id want my money back as id feel they have breached contract-
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