Force v Tahs, round 9 2014

[cyclopath]

@Pfitzy - I agree. The Waratahs first half play was very good in intent, they dominated possession and field position, they made some good play then bollocksed up every opportunity! Bad coaching? No, but bloody awful execution. Why? The Force were hitting hard in defence, and swooping on any vulnerable breakdown and getting turnovers. Foley and the Force defence coaches prepared them well, and they took all their chances well. I think the idea the Tahs started with was good, but their execution got worse as the game went on, and they ran out of ideas.
If the first half "came off" for them, and the Force had to chase the game, who knows? But it didn't, and the Tahs have to look at their backup plans.
The Force thoroughly deserved the win. And you gotta think they're a big chance for 6 on the trot.

 

[A mutterer]

well done to the honey badger and the force. you definitely deserved the win, and executed the game plan consistently all night.

for the waratahs, it's not like they shouldn't have expected exactly the way they played since they consistently lose to the exact same strategy - rush up and hit hard in the tackle and contest the ruck.

from my perspective, the tahs look like a team that is running on emotion, despite the poker face early in the season, and the tank is running on fumes.

not a good way to be playing rugby in this conference season given how tight things are - composure and some clear headed leadership are required.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They forced (ha) a lot of errors on the Tahs who didn't handle it well and sometimes they made mistakes without any help. They looked a lot like the old Waratahs

They certainly did.
Which is cause for concern in that when challenged they revert to type which means Cheika has not altered the underlying thinking in the team to the extent we thought hoped. One of his great strengths was not to look for excuses but subtly, maybe even subconsciously, bagging the officials and fighting with the periphery sends a message that you're not in control of the things you can hope to control in this game.
Maybe that's a stretch after one bad game in a row: they were good versus the stormers.

 

[I like to watch]

The best measure of a team,is not how good they are when they "are on".
It's how good they are,when they are not playing well,or things conspire against them.
Good teams win ugly,and win games they shouldn't.
I'm not seeing that yet from the Tahs.
More work is needed to get "to the next level"

 

[Nipper]

I have to say, the Tahs fans have been pretty gracious. Good on you guys. Better than the Reds' fans. I'm trying not to get too overconfident, as I know it could go pear-shaped in a moment.

 

[SammyP]

Seriously, how can a player call an assistant ref a "fucking idiot" and stay on the field?!

Apparently it is perfectly acceptable if you are a Tah. I recall AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doing the exact same thing to an AR in Canberra, telling him to "do his fucking job".
The attitude of the players is pretty appalling. They appear to believe that they are entitled to have things their way. Not all of them of course, but those that are touted as "stars" ... well look at Beale last night. Throw a poor pass, misjudged totally and it hits a player running through. Then he berates the poor kid who I believe was playing his 1st Super match. Really disappointing behaviour.
I am really hoping that Folau, who still appears humble, does not pick up the same arrogance as some of his well known team mates. But am worried because of how much he is being promoted as the games star and saviour ... only time will tell.

But to the Force ... well done, absolutely awesome. Didn't play very well but did enough to win, capitalising on the Tah's plentiful mistakes. I really like the Force, they are getting the job done which is great to see. Plus they are doing it without a team full of Wallabies, which is even better. The guy who played 60 minutes of club rugby that morning then was thrown into the Force's side ... Fantastic!

 

[Quick Hands]

rush defence nullifies an attack that wants space, you say? Cryptic, yet interesting.

So what do you do if you are continually being denied time and space by rush defence? Keep doing the same thing and keep being denied time and space or vary your play a little?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

well look at Beale last night. Throw a poor pass, misjudged totally and it hits a player running through. Then he berates the poor kid who I believe was playing his 1st Super match. Really disappointing behaviour.

Spot on.
KB (Kurtley Beale) needs to pull his head in and if he isn't old enough and big enough to know that this was the wrong thing to do to the bloke he needs to have it explained to him by the coaching staff.
He berated Crawford for not knowing that he was meant to come back inside him on a (lolly) pop pass: christ, if you switched back inside Beale every time he ran across field you'd have 14 blokes standing in the middle of the half way line.
He blamed Crawford for the lawn bowls pass that saw Cummings score his length of the field in the 2nd half.

rush defence nullifies an attack that wants space, you say? Cryptic, yet interesting.

So what do you do if you are continually being denied time and space by rush defence? Keep doing the same thing and keep being denied time and space or vary your play a little?

You mean like a pick and drive for instance?

 

[GaffaCHinO]

On sunrise this morning haha

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[Pfitzy]

[So what do you do if you are continually being denied time and space by rush defence? Keep doing the same thing and keep being denied time and space or vary your play a little?

You get your forward pack to strap a pair on and start hurting blokes

 

[Hugh Jarse]

HJ, drink

Done. Still sober enough to drive. Maybe the RMS (former RTA) could introduce a responsible drinking campaign based on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) passing?

Stoic performance from the Force. Lazy, bumbling performance from the Tahs.

Not much to add that hasn't already been said above.

WA win U17 Junior Gold Cup. Force are going gangbusters in the SupeRugby. Watch out for the WA Mob in the NRC.

Well done Sydney Grammar 1st XV for restoring some pride for the Eastern States.

 

[cyclopath]

One brighter note for the Tahs - TPN played 80, and was still going pretty strong at the end. Good to see. Need to get far more time from Kepu and more consistency from Robinson to keep the scrum strong. Potgieter going off early not ideal either.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

TPN played 80, and was still going pretty strong at the end.

He sure was.
When was the last time he played 80, I wonder?

 

[gel]

Beale was awful.
All across field with his bullshit flick passes blaming all and sundry for his mistakes from what I could see and then bagging Gardiner.
Cheika's recent behaviour legitimises lack of discipline in the players.
Good luck to the force - NIB is a fantastic ground to watch rugby at.

This behaviour from Beale is not new:

I really hope Beale takes note of how he played last night. The last two years bhe has been very critical of his team mates on field after they have stuffed something up - it has been really shit to watch actually. Not good team mate behaviour at all from him.

Well, he now has a pretty good personal reference point he can draw on in future when someone else stuffs up.

I am betting he won't learn at all though.

Unfortunately not everyone at the time shared my views and in fact were really quite critical of it:

How precious are you?
I wasn't being argumentative: you need to get out more.
I read it but decided it was just personal crap directed at Beale - similar to your post under reply.
There's no lesson here: Dagg is too good for Beale and not watching the ball is something all players do from time to time.
Hell, I bet even you make mistakes.
Worrying about things you can't change or thinking that an aberration such as the knock on make a player unworthy are both unproductive approaches.
I happen to think that Beale is overrated (the missed tackle supports this view) but If he was good enough, despite my view, he's still the same player and should not be vilified for one bad game.

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Genia and Cooper are still at it - Genia quite openly and Cooper less so these days.

How much impact does this have on the other players? I would say an enormous amount, and you don't see it in the Rebels, Force or Brumbies and those teams appear to be way tighter than ever. The younger players visibly sag whenever it happens and you can see them getting over anxious for the balance of the game.

 

[dabiged]

I was at the match last night and it was great to see us get up. The noise on the fox coverage from the crowd is incredible, especially considering there were less than half the number that went to the reds/brumbies match the night before.

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned that the last time these two teams played it was Falau that got a hattrick of tries. He was a massive loss for the tahs and I felt the game would have been very different had he played.

The Waratahs obstruction call was crap. That was a brilliant set piece try that should have been awarded. I said it during live play and the replay did not change my mind. Also I felt the force got the rub of the whistle in the second half.

Skelton and Hooper played a blinder. Skelton was unstoppable at times going forward and Hooper appeared to be at every single ruck.

Everyone is hounding Phipps for swearing at the AR (and I would never condone such behaviour) but it was clear from where I was sitting that the ball did go out off a force hand, so at least he had a point.

 

[I like to watch]

No he didn't have a point.
If he wants to argue with or harangue match officials,play another code.

 

[Quick Hands]

You mean like a pick and drive for instance?

You could do some pick and drive, you could try to turn them around with well-placed and well-executed kicks. (Emphasis on well-placed and well-executed). Most of the kicks I saw were poor - like the one that Foley kicked straight to the Force player, who then ran it back. It's about taking control of the game. The way the game was played last night, the Force were in control and all I'm saying is that by continuing with the same tactics (which weren't working) left the Force in control. Changing the pattern of the game is a way of retaking control, it makes the Force reconsider their tactics and puts some pressure back on them. It doesn't mean you go back into your shell and stop being positive, you just tweak things a little. The problem with an all or nothing approach is that sometimes you end up with nothing.

Putting in some kicks (both short and long) to negate a rushing, flat-line defence isn't really ground breaking tactics. (I'm not claiming to be some sort of tactical genius here) It's been around for as long as I have been associated with the game. I'd like to think that a professional team could work out what the opposition were doing and adjust tactics accordingly.

 

[Quick Hands]

I recall AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doing the exact same thing to an AR in Canberra, telling him to "do his fucking job".
The attitude of the players is pretty appalling.

You're right, it's totally unacceptable. The question that I have is why didn't the match officials take action? You have to assume that the AR heard it - Phipps yelled at him from about 5m away and the referee got into a discussion with Phipps about the decision straight away.

 

[Forcefield]

The Waratahs obstruction call was crap. That was a brilliant set piece try that should have been awarded. I said it during live play and the replay did not change my mind. Also I felt the force got the rub of the whistle in the second half.

I don't agree with that one. I do agree that it was a great set piece move and we should see more of them. Boo Robbie Deans for taking that out of the Wallabies play. But Lance did get in the way of Mathewson making a tackle on Crawford. Chances are that the Waratahs would have gained momentum if the tackle was made and taken the ball over the line in another phase or two. In that sense, it seems harsh to penalise obstruction.

I agree on the rub of the whistle. It seemed like the Force had it tough right up until the point Gardiner gave the team warning to the Force, and then the rub came back in our favour.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

I seem to recall the captain of an u14 sydney comp team using those exact same words as Phipps to describe the referee and rightly ending up in front of the tribunal and getting suspended from both school and club games. Far less acceptable from a test player


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