Force 2018

[cyclopath]

I don't think that stat of 6 wins paints the full picture though..
Western Force were highly competitive all season, they were a team with structure and game plan. I also think Wessells was working with a group of players which at the start of this season, was probably ranked one of the weakest squads in the comp, but he still managed to have them performing at a level far beyond their standing.

His performance was far better then Gibson, Stiles and McGahan, and based on his time in the role and squad he had, i also think he did a better job then Larkham. He mightn't be a great coach, but he is better then the other crap currently being served up.

So, kind of what I said?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TOCC]

So, kind of what I said?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your post certainly came across as a 'glass half empty' kind of post, i think you were marginally more pessimistic about his performance then warranted, specifically highlighting the 6 wins from 15. Same figure as the Brumbies but not one which paints the full pictured, in terms of trajectory i think they are moving in opposite directions, one team made marked improvements since 2016, the other didn't.

 

[Braveheart81]

We made a big mistake choosing Chek over Jake White.
.

I'm not really sure how.

White was hardly a popular figure for the style of play he deployed at teams and a year after we'd seen the back of a NZ Wallabies coach, I don't think another foreign coach would have sat well.

We then made the RWC final a year later which significantly exceeded expectations.

Clearly Cheika needs to improve the performance now. 2017 is going to be a challenging season and we can't afford another one as bad as last year.

I don't think that in any way makes it reasonable to suggest that White should have been employed as the Wallabies coach in 2014.

 

[James Pettifer]

Your post certainly came across as a 'glass half empty' kind of post, i think you were marginally more pessimistic about his performance then warranted, specifically highlighting the 6 wins from 15. Same figure as the Brumbies but not one which paints the full pictured, in terms of trajectory i think they are moving in opposite directions, one team made marked improvements since 2016, the other didn't.

As I continually tell the sales teams I work with, having opportunities and discussions with clients is great but in the end all that counts is the results (dollars in the P&L). 6 wins is 6 wins and I doubt that the Force would have been putting that as their target for 2017 at the start of the year.

The Rebels looked like being on an upward trajectory climbing from 4 wins in 2014 to 7 wins in both 2015 and 2016 and then crashing to their worst season in 2017.


Australia looked like being on an upward trajectory after Cheika came in and we reached the world cup final. Not now.

Hopefully we will see the 2018 Force and they will have a great season (except for the games they lose heavily against the Rebels).

 

[boyo]

Harsh. Many will have Wallaby aspirations.

But the temptation is there to say "Fuck the ARU".

 

[Killer]

Wessels would be great to retain. Whilst the improvement in results may be relatively marginal, the improvement in play was considerable.

However, I do note that Wessels had the strongest support staff (with the arguable exception of the Brumbies). The emphasis should be just as much on keeping them if possible.

Also, the ARU didn't choose Cheika over White - they chose Mackenzie.

yeah you are right, sorry about that, bloody details.
The comparison still stands with Mackenzie though.
He was a good coach good communicator and the players played for him.
Problem was he didnt work harder than the players. Lack of discipline allowed him to bring his private life into the equation.
This lack of discipline imo would never happen with Jake or Wessels.
Chek is a poor manager of people, we will always under achieve med/longer term with him as coach.
The Aus rugby world would be a much more positive place if Jake had of been given the job.

 

[Shiggins]

Did anyone see Kafe on kick and chase talking shit ? Saying in all the key areas the Aru looked The force and rebels are about the same ? Except the force had better numbers in every single fucking criteria he bought up. But nah they are about the same. What a dickhead.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[BLR]

Did anyone see Kate on kick and chase talking shit ? Saying in all the key areas the Aru looked The force and rebels are about the same ? Except the force had better numbers in every single fucking criteria he bought up. But nah they are about the same. What a dickhead.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

Apparently RugbyWA have seen this mythical 'spreadsheet' that was used to make this decision and it was pretty easy to refute the case of the ARU's in regards to our suitability to cull.

Unfortunately I don't see how this could be used in a court of law.

 

[Killer]

Did anyone see Kate on kick and chase talking shit ? Saying in all the key areas the Aru looked The force and rebels are about the same ? Except the force had better numbers in every single fucking criteria he bought up. But nah they are about the same. What a dickhead.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

Yeah he's the ARU's bitch now, sold his soul, my bet is he will regret it, then watch him flounder around sucking up.
Based on his previous comments and his player representative background it was weak.

 

[Shiggins]

Apparently RugbyWA have seen this mythical 'spreadsheet' that was used to make this decision and it was pretty easy to refute the case of the ARU's in regards to our suitability to cull.

Unfortunately I don't see how this could be used in a court of law.

100 percent we all know that the rebels loose the criteria in every aspect. But apparently it's only by a little bit on each one so let's just axe The force because it's easy and they are out of site in bumfuck WA

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think there are any other motives behind cancelling the Force licence other than the fact it was the easiest option they had available to them.

Once they committed to cutting a team it was never going to be anyone except the Force.

 

[BLR]

I don't think there are any other motives behind cancelling the Force licence other than the fact it was the easiest option they had available to them.

Once they committed to cutting a team it was never going to be anyone except the Force.

The problem is, from what it seems, the ARU helped facilitate the sale between the VRU & Cox effectively taking this off the table as an option.

I would assume they wanted to deny they had anything to do with the sale so they could claim they only had the one choice and it was out of their hands. It's duplicitous, pure and simple.

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem is, from what it seems, the ARU helped facilitate the sale between the VRU & Cox effectively taking this off the table as an option.

I would assume they wanted to deny they had anything to do with the sale so they could claim they only had the one choice and it was out of their hands. It's duplicitous, pure and simple.

They made the choice to cancel the Force licence months ago. The process stopped in June due to RugbyWA's legal action and the agreement to enter arbitration.

It was never a fair fight. They always thought that cancelling the Force's licence was the path of least resistance to remove a team and that's what they did.

 

[daz]

The moment Cox said "no sale" to the ARU, that was the end of the story for the Force.

I promise you, if Cox had sold to the ARU, the Force would still be around.

There are probably many reasons why the Force were "better" than the Rebels on a spreadsheet, but here's the oft-repeated newsflash; none of that matters because WE HELD OUR OWN LICENCE.

That is what saved the Rebels, not some desire to fuck the Force over.

So, perhaps the whole East Coast Elite/WA Poor Cousins crap can stop. It was embarrassing when I was a kid growing up in Perth, and it's embarrassing now.

 

[Killer]

The moment Cox said "no sale" to the ARU, that was the end of the story for the Force.

I promise you, if Cox had sold to the ARU, the Force would still be around.

There are probably many reasons why the Force were "better" than the Rebels on a spreadsheet, but here's the oft-repeated newsflash; none of that matters because WE HELD OUR OWN LICENCE.

That is what saved the Rebels, not some desire to fuck the Force over.

So, perhaps the whole East Coast Elite/WA Poor Cousins crap can stop. It was embarrassing when I was a kid growing up in Perth, and it's embarrassing now.

not forgetting you always had Clyne onside, he was your trump card along with his henchman Rob Clarke.
Clarke is gone soon to be followed by Clyne.

 

[Boomer]

The moment Cox said "no sale" to the ARU, that was the end of the story for the Force.

I promise you, if Cox had sold to the ARU, the Force would still be around.

There are probably many reasons why the Force were "better" than the Rebels on a spreadsheet, but here's the oft-repeated newsflash; none of that matters because WE HELD OUR OWN LICENCE.

That is what saved the Rebels, not some desire to fuck the Force over.

So, perhaps the whole East Coast Elite/WA Poor Cousins crap can stop. It was embarrassing when I was a kid growing up in Perth, and it's embarrassing now.

How about you stop throwing your weight around, pal?

Don't like it? Go mod a Rebels forum.

 

[farva]

The moment Cox said "no sale" to the ARU, that was the end of the story for the Force.

I promise you, if Cox had sold to the ARU, the Force would still be around.

There are probably many reasons why the Force were "better" than the Rebels on a spreadsheet, but here's the oft-repeated newsflash; none of that matters because WE HELD OUR OWN LICENCE.

That is what saved the Rebels, not some desire to fuck the Force over.

So, perhaps the whole East Coast Elite/WA Poor Cousins crap can stop. It was embarrassing when I was a kid growing up in Perth, and it's embarrassing now.

Its far more complex than that.
The Force IP was purchased this time last year, effectively putting the team in the hands of the ARU.
The Brumbies, Tahs and Reds were never considered for culling, it was only the Rebels and the Force - why?
The Rebels were to Cox by the ARU in 2015 - why?
When the Force were able to buy back their IP, it was refused - why?

I agree that it wasnt a desire to screw over the Force, rather, it was self interest by ARU board members to protect their own back yard that resulted in the Force being the ones dumped. And it was a series of events that lead to it that suggest there is corruption within the ARU.

 

[cyclopath]

How about you stop throwing your weight around, pal?

Don't like it? Go mod a Rebels forum.

Calm down, he's voicing an opinion, which he is allowed to do. You can disagree with it. That's the point.

 

[Boomer]

Calm down, he's voicing an opinion, which he is allowed to do. You can disagree with it. That's the point.

Dead right.

My opinion is, piss off and go infuriate a bunch of people that deserve it, rather than making drive-by character assassinations which do nothing to further the debate.

 

[Braveheart81]

Its far more complex than that.
The Force IP was purchased this time last year, effectively putting the team in the hands of the ARU.
The Brumbies, Tahs and Reds were never considered for culling, it was only the Rebels and the Force - why?
The Rebels were to Cox by the ARU in 2015 - why?
When the Force were able to buy back their IP, it was refused - why?

I agree that it wasnt a desire to screw over the Force, rather, it was self interest by ARU board members to protect their own back yard that resulted in the Force being the ones dumped. And it was a series of events that lead to it that suggest there is corruption within the ARU.

I don't think it is more complex than that. The Force were the only team that the ARU were in a position to cancel the licence of.

The ARU sold the Rebels to Cox to remove a liability from their balance sheet. They wanted to make it someone else's problem.

From April 2017 the ARU had agreed to cut a team. They were never going to sell the Force back their IP and licence after that.

It was definitely underhanded but I don't think you can realistically say there was corruption.

Rightly or wrongly the ARU first thought that their best path forward financially was to only have four Super Rugby teams. They then committed to SANZAAR that they would do that as part of reducing the competition to 15 teams.

From that point on the Force were toast. There was never anyone else they could possibly cut.

It sucks and it is incredibly disappointing for all Aussie rugby fans so I can't imagine how bad it is for you guys who were passionate about the Force. If the situation had been reversed and the ARU owned the Rebels licence still and didn't own the Force licence, I can guarantee the decision made would have been different.