Ewen McKenzie labels the ARU contracting process as 'Frustrating, Difficult'

[Braveheart81]

The salary cap is a separate issue and the loss of Higgers is just a part of the game under it. Time to get used to less loyalty all round while the cap is in effect.

I don't think your current team being able to meet your ever increasing contract demands equates to loyalty.

 

[No4918]

Mckenzies position is becoming farcical: he does not appear to have (a) any knowledge of what the ARUs offer is or (b) any contact with QC (Quade Cooper):
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...al-contract-says-aru-20121121-29p65.html#poll

Either that or Nucifora is fibbing.
I don't like Nucifora, but since mckenzies position denpds on Khoder Nasser being truthful I'm afraid he's been played for a sucker.



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How can he help other problem? If he sticks his nose in you will want him to stay out of it because its between QC (Quade Cooper) and the ARU.

Courier mail is reporting that Cooper rang Carmichael last night.

 

[Langthorne]

The ARU contracting system has never been ideal, but this new development (salary cap for the Super teams without any guaranteed top up) makes the situation worse. It would appear that there is now almost no chance that Australian teams can compete financially with the overseas market. My main issue is with the salary cap - why not just let the Super teams decide what they can afford? ("they are imbeciles" I guess is the response)

I don't want the ARU to spend more than it has, and I think play/performance payments are the way to go. I would add that the provincial salary cap should be raised (or even abolished), and the payments paid for Wallaby selection should be generous (to reflect the risk of injury or non selection - the ARU are essentially offering a 'casual rate'), and there need not be individual contracts (selection for the Wallabies equals X amount for training and Y amount for matches, open to all Wallaby eligable Super contracted players). If that, plus the opportunity to be a professional rugby player in Australia, and the honour of playing for Australia, is not enough - sayonara!

As far as Quade Cooper is concerned, I am not too keen to see him play for the Wallabies at the moment - great pass and great step, but for me he is not at the level (skills, attitude, maturity) I'd like to see. Maybe that will change. I realise that the majority will disagree with me on this. I would like to see him continue to play for Queensland - his style seems to work in that team and at that level, plus he will presumably improve as a player there too. On the other hand, there is something pleasing about the idea of him taking up boxing, as it would involve him being punched repeatedly .

 

[Braveheart81]

My main issue is with the salary cap - why not just let the Super teams decide what they can afford? ("they are imbeciles" I guess is the response)

The reason for the salary cap is because the ARU is providing the same amount of money to each franchise.

If they removed the salary cap, it would inevitably lead to successful teams overcommitting when they do well and then run into problems if their results worsened and revenue went down. This has happened before.

The other thing that you could see if they got rid of the salary cap is that the ARU might decide not to fund each franchise equally on the basis that some can afford to pay their own way to a higher degree than the others.

I think a salary cap is a necessary evil when the funds are coming from the governing body.

I also don't think it makes us uncompetitive. There will always be more money on offer for people to go and play in France. The lure is playing for the Wallabies. I think that the Wallabies are paid pretty well relative to All Blacks and Springboks. I don't think we are at all uncompetitive on that scale.

 

[mudskipper]

Coopers contract is late because of his bullshit in the media and the ARU hearing... he caused issue... he's made his own problems...

interesting comments that Coopers manage Nasser isnt returning the ARUs calls but can be seen in the media at a cafe in Sydney talking to QC (Quade Cooper) & SBW...

"Our contracting manager [Matt Carroll] has tried to speak directly to his agent without any success," Nucifora said.​

"Obviously on the back of what came out Monday night we've tried to make contact, with little joy and no luck, about wanting to enter into a discussion. Without dialogue it's pretty difficult to go anywhere."​

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Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/cooper-offered-substantial-contract-says-aru-20121121-29p65.html#ixzz2CufpWlRR​

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How can he help other problem? If he sticks his nose in you will want him to stay out of it because its between QC (Quade Cooper) and the ARU.

Courier mail is reporting that Cooper rang Carmichael last night.

I'm not saying he can: that's why he shouldn't have commented at this time -he's a stool pigeon for Cooper and Nasser.
His comment played into Nasser's hands by wedging QRU and ARU.


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[No4918]

I think there are a lot of people being played in this whether by design or collateral damage. The more it draws out the more it appears this is the outcome the Cooper party are looking for. If he wanted to help Australian rugby he'd just sign or at least comment about the allegations that he is leaving. All this is doing is a good job of pitting the various factions against each other, maybe this is the plan before his departure?

Mckenzie is quite within his rights to say that the process is difficult given Genia is also not confirmed, i think his frustration is warranted. I doubt this frustration is only directed at the ARU but he can't say that either.

 

[Pieman]

How can he help other problem? If he sticks his nose in you will want him to stay out of it because its between QC (Quade Cooper) and the ARU.

Courier mail is reporting that Cooper rang Carmichael last night.

Was this in the paper itself?

I can't seem to find it in online.

 

[No4918]

Was this in the paper itself?

I can't seem to find it in online.

Yeah, in the paper. Looked online to link to it but could not find it either.

 

[mudskipper]

Mckenzie is quite within his rights to say that the process is difficult given Genia is also not confirmed, i think his frustration is warranted. I doubt this frustration is only directed at the ARU but he can't say that either.

Is this because Genia was chasing more cash from the ARU and didn't accept their initial offer? Are players taking advantage of the ARU and are slow to commit?

 

[Bowside]

I don't think your current team being able to meet your ever increasing contract demands equates to loyalty.

The reds had the money for higgers, but not the cap space. If there was no cap he would probably still be playing for Queensland next year.

Furthermore if he had got the ARU top up he was hoping for he would have stayed at the reds. The second part is reasonable as the ARU have to cut costs, but the salary cap is a bit of a joke in a global sport like rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

Just to correct the thread title:

Ewen McKenzie labels the ARU contracting process as 'frustrating, difficult......... when dealing with Quade Cooper.'

And he's right..........

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The reds had the money for higgers, but not the cap space. If there was no cap he would probably still be playing for Queensland next year.

Furthermore if he had got the ARU top up he was hoping for he would have stayed at the reds. The second part is reasonable as the ARU have to cut costs, but the salary cap is a bit of a joke in a global sport like rugby.

Except that it forces the reds to divest a player, which supposedly helps the rebels.
I recognize that dilutes the concentration of players and makes it harder for the reds to win the comp but its probably better for oz rugby to have 4 franchises that are closer in ability than to have 1 juggernaut and 3 also rans. It forces the reds to find the next Higgers which is good for the game.
The salary cap is arguably the ARUs central contracting system solution as well as being a curb on costs.
(I have assumed in this post that Higgers is a valued and valuable member of any s15 team)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Don't forget that the ARU have had to bail out the two biggest states recently, and one of which is apparently very close to needing assistance again.

The Salary Cap is one of the ARU's measures implemented to avoid having to step in yet again and again and again.

 

[Scotty]

Except that it forces the reds to divest a player, which supposedly helps the rebels.
I recognize that dilutes the concentration of players and makes it harder for the reds to win the comp but its probably better for oz rugby to have 4 franchises that are closer in ability than to have 1 juggernaut and 3 also rans. It forces the reds to find the next Higgers which is good for the game.
The salary cap is arguably the ARUs central contracting system solution as well as being a curb on costs.
(I have assumed in this post that Higgers is a valued and valuable member of any s15 team)

So the reds and tahs have to keep acting as talent identification and training for the other states? Surely their costs of doing this needs to be factored into the transfer process?

 

[cyclopath]

So the reds and tahs have to keep acting as talent identification and training for the other states? Surely their costs of doing this needs to be factored into the transfer process?

But they will always be. The player pools here are so large.
When a "top-shelf" player is lost, because the Franchise can't keep him under the cap, it is understandably hard to take, but a lot of lower down the rung players from NSW and Qld might get starts elsewhere, and that has to be better.
Do you mean transfer fees somewhat like we see in EPL football? Hard to work, in the constraints of a cap. Who pays for it? ARU seemingly can't afford it.
I get your point, I just can't see how it would work.

 

[fatprop]

So the reds and tahs have to keep acting as talent identification and training for the other states? Surely their costs of doing this needs to be factored into the transfer process?

Nah, the Reds & Tahs do that development for selfish reasons and cherry pick the ones they want.

If they want to control the transfer market let them just sign all the kids to long term contracts in the first place, so they have a right to compensation.

But when a guy is out of contract he has the clear right to go where he deems best for him.

 

[mudskipper]

So the reds and tahs have to keep acting as talent identification and training for the other states? Surely their costs of doing this needs to be factored into the transfer process?

That’s complete make believe, you should be writing for Disney… the Brumbies and Force have developed plenty of talent, and I'm sure the Rebels will over coming years... The Reds and Tahs have just been poorly managed by dilettantes in the past...

 

[Scotty]

That’s complete make believe, you should be writing for Disney… the Brumbies and Force have developed plenty of talent, and I'm sure the Rebels will over coming years. The Reds and Tahs have just been poorly managed by dilettantes in the past.

It is make believe that most of the super rugby players come from Qld and Nsw? Really?

 

[Scotty]

Nah, the Reds & Tahs do that development for selfish reasons and cherry pick the ones they want.

If they want to control the transfer market let them just sign all the kids to long term contracts in the first place, so they have a right to compensation.

But when a guy is out of contract he has the clear right to go where he deems best for him.

I probably should have said the QRU and NSWRU.