EOYT 2016 - Possibles, probables and general banter

[Braveheart81]

I'll also add, how can you not make this differentiation? You're an intelligent lad.

I'll make it easier for you. What has Koroibete done to deserve or earn a call up. Once you've answered that, you may see how someone like Morahan is more deserving.

He has shown he is an elite footballer to the extent that the ARU wanted to go to significant lengths to sign him. He is extremely fast and that is something they clearly desire. As part of developing that investment they want him to go on this tour.

Every player the ARU has signed from league has created controversy. Some of them have proved to be very good recruits and some of them haven't.

Morahan has played really well and I would have selected him. Excluding Korobeite there are 2 other pure wingers and 2 guys who have played wing for much of the season at test level who have been preferred ahead of him. You could argue he needed to be better to get selected.

Clearly Korobeite has done nothing in Australian rugby so you could argue that every single rugby player is more deserving of selection than him. It's clearly not the only criteria that is looked at though.

Anyway, we should move on because this conversation is at loggerheads.

 

[hammertimethere]

Leaving Morahan at home and taking Koroibete amongst the official squad is a terrible look for Australian rugby. I get that the ARU would want to fast track his development and there is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't change the fact that Morahan played well for the Force in a struggling team, absolutely shredded the NRC and should be touring ahead of him (and potentially one of Speight or Naivalu).

Surely anyone involved could have seen that the easiest thing to do would have been to take Morahan and then name Koroibete as an "apprentice" or some such with the express point that he's coming to train and play for the BaaBaa's/against the French BaaBaa's.

 

[Beer Baron]

I think Morahan has been extremely unlucky to miss out on this occasion. He has blitzed the NRC and his form atm is better than when he played for the Wallabies years ago. On top of that, he would bring another strong kicking game to the back three if selected. Could have been a very valuable inclusion for my money.

I suppose I would have to question Will Skelton's inclusion again. His form doesn't warrant a spot.

May have used Morahan as a bad example point still stands that its proffesional and a business.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Thank you Strewthcobber you saved me a post on the subject re: investment.

I also really get annoyed when people say we are poaching league players at expense of spending money on young talent. It just does not work that way!

What people fail to realise is in the war on young talent, league kills us by poaching best rugby school kids stars suited to league because we don't have the professional pathways league can offer at young ages for the real stars of schoolboy game. Where we can compete is when league players are worthy of wallaby selection and offer ARU top up money.

We need stars in the game to attract the fans, bring money to the game and encourage greater participation. Yes would be lovely if we could better retain our young schoolkid stars and that is something we have to fix by growing the game and offering more professional pathways but if we don't poach good league players who are suited to our game and could play for the wallabies we only make our situation worse and make it even better for league to walk all over us and take all the stars and the fans that come with it. Anyhow enough of my rant.

This is a war on talent and codes like league have the upper hand in many cases and the wallaby / aru top up money situation is only where we have some advantages so don't kill one few areas of bargaining power union has to attract talent.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Might add been mentioned in press that Cheika had used the offer of a place in the touring party as something of a carrot to help lure Koroibete from league to union.

So if that was necessary bargaining bit to get him all the more for it. But reality is they have made big investment in 24 year old player who has deemed international pedigree (as otherwise would not have recruited him) so want to make sure ARU gets best bang from their buck from their investment.

 

[TOCC]

Using Wallabies selection as a bargain chip makes this thing even worse, not better.. entice him with the money, but he still needs to earn selection to play for the Wallabies, not because of a clause in a contract..

 

[cyclopath]

Using Wallabies selection as a bargain chip makes this thing even worse, not better.. entice him with the money, but he still needs to earn selection to play for the Wallabies, not because of a clause in a contract..

Of course you are right. Sad reality of these contract negotiations. They must think he has a higher ceiling. I'm not saying I like it ( I don't) but it is the ugly truth of it. They should really be starting at Super Rugby at the highest.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For some bizarre reason I think Korobeite may not let us down the way all the others have - I have no basis for it.
But if a bloke needs a promise as opposed to an incentivised contract I wonder what the ARU bought.
And it's our money they used to buy it.

 

[Strewthcobber]

For some bizarre reason I think Korobeite may not let us down the way all the others have - I have no basis for it.
But if a bloke needs a promise as opposed to an incentivised contract I wonder what the ARU bought.
And it's our money they used to buy it.

Well it's the player's money really - comes out of the money set aside for them under the CBA doesn't it?

 

[I like to watch]

If he has been promised a starting jumper on this tour I would agree wholeheartedly.
But a seat on a plane with a touring party that includes Godwin, not so much.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Maybe but Rugby has a hard time at the bargaining table for talent, while I am sure they see this as fast track opportunity for big investment they have made.

I have been highly critical of ARU in past not going after big talent in the game (game I mean league/union) so I for one am very happy they have made this happen.

 

[KOB1987]

If he has been promised a starting jumper on this tour I would agree wholeheartedly.
But a seat on a plane with a touring party that includes Godwin, not so much.

And big Will. I'm in the same camp as you, he still has to earn selection.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm pretty disappointed with the inclusion of Korobeite in the squad, for the same reasons as I did not support the selection of Timana Tahu, Rocky Elsom and Dan Vickerman in those respective Wallaby sides either. none of them had played Super Rugby in the year in which they were selected to have any form worthy of that selection. It makes a mockery of the eligibility rules IMO.

Second because I'm a tragic I watched a lot of the NRC and from what I saw Godwin showed nothing more at NRC level than he did at Super Level this year. Its like Michael Foley broke his attacking ability, or a combination of Foley/Graham did (must be attacking Rugby Kryptonite). To take him over Morahan is an absolute joke given Naivalu and Folau and Kurindrani are in the side to cover 13 and all are better options than Godwin at centre. Also not taking Morahan shows Cheika (or Larkham or both) hasn't learnt the lesson about genuine pace on the wings and picking players in their positions.

I had really hoped after the 3rd Bled. test we had seen the last of the two playmaker system and will see a return to a balanced side that isn't rushing all over the place trying to cover deficiencies in personnel in attack or defence. I also hope we have seen the last of the Pooper as with the 10s, pick one and be done.

 

[KOB1987]

Godwin is there by default as the last 12 standing isn't he? It was him or tom carter!

Seriously though, you'd think he's just as back up, both of foley and hodge will get picked at 12 ahead of him for the big games.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Bit odd to get upset over Koribete.

I'm pretty sure there's not a single test capped player at 12 available except Foley and Cooper who last started a test there about 8 years ago.

Harris - gone.
Leali'ifano - illness
To'omua - gone
Beale - injured
Giteau - injured
Barnes - gone
McCabe - retired
Fainga'a - gone
Kerevi - injured

Then the other players who played super rugby and can play there
Inman - injured I think
Hunt - injured
Hodge - in the squad
Horne - injured

Actually Ben Tapuai is still available and he played 4 years ago!

Otherwise you have players like Lance who don't really play in the centres at their best.

Simone looks like a prospect definitely but as many have said he needs a full professional pre season to be up to test level.

With Godwin it genuinely appears to be a case of last man standing.

 

[p.Tah]

People don't think Folau was tempted to join Rugby by the Lions tour being dangled in front of him?
SBW too would have had the AB jersey waved in front of him to leave France. He played 5 ITM cup games (no super rugby) and was taken on the NZ European tour, debuting against England.
Both were called mercenaries at the time.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

"At the end of the day, the ARU took a big risk signing a guy from the NRL on a significant contract but once they make that decision they have to try and do everything they can to make it a success."

And given only short window at 24 (versus players career and peak) to make a return on that investment I do get it. I understand people might wince at this but yes also commercial business they are running...might not like it...but commercial realities have to play a part in professional sport. Hopefully people can have some misgivings but forgive and just get behind Koriobete and Wallabies train as you got to admit if watched him play for Storm he is pretty exciting prospect. As Koriobete was one of the best players in recent Sharks - Storm GF so certainly has recent form (and has played union) and also pedigree in area we are weak in which is wingers with pace as highlighted above.

Just promise me no letters to ARU on this ok...

 

[Train Without a Station]

Sorry. Meant bit odd to get upset over Godwin.

Koribete is different but I tend to think he may not play a test.

 

[Brumby Runner]

fixed

I agree. It doesn't add up to me that Izzy should be asked to refind his form playing in the crucial spot at 13. Put him in 11 and get him running inside lines off Cooper and we'll see some fireworks. Will also allow him to drop back to assist with high balls which is a real strength.

 

[Brumby Runner]

With Godwin it genuinely appears to be a case of last man standing.

I think you're right TWAS, and I don't expect to see Godwin named in the side barring a spate of injuries. But I really do think he showed some of his best form for many years in the NRC just passed, and if he does make it on the field there won't be any defensive issues in his spot.