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England v Wallabies, Twickenham, Sun 10th Nov 2:10AEDT / 1:10AEST

Proud Pig

Tom Lawton (22)
Firstly, JS at outside centre is abject stupidity in my opinion.
Len is one of the few world class players we have and his best position is 13.
Don't move him to make way for a guy we have no way of knowing if he understands the defensive reads required in the defensively hardest position on the field.
Our defense was shown to be our biggest weakness in the earlier tests why make it weaker.
If you want to play JS play him at 12 where the defensive reads are going to be much easier particularly if we continue with the passive defense that we used.

Secondly, if we start with Skelton because of his size and ball carrying ability we need a strong lineout operator at 6.
If we go with Valetini, McReight and Wilson as the back row England will position Martin on Skelton's second row partner to disrupt at every lineout.
This will allow Itoje and Cunningham-South to have a field day at the line out.
Marcus Smith will already kick a lot but if they have obvious ascendency at the lineout we will be playing most of the game down our end as he will just boot for the line everytime England get the ball.
If Skelton starts then Williams has to start at 6 as we need a second jumper in the starting line up to assist either Frost or LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto).

Finally, I think Slipper's best days are now behind him and with him and AAA coming off the bench we may well be giving up a bit of an advantage to England with Fin Baxter coming off the bench.
He is young and covers a lot of ground so where I think AAA and Slipper will manage Cole well I think they could struggle with Baxter's athleticism.
We have to have AAA on the bench as no one knows how long Tupou will last but I would have Kailea and Pollard there for their improved athleticism over Slipper and Faessler.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Latest article on ESPN this morning says it will be JS and Ikitau starting. Essentially, no one knows and we've had every potential combination published in the last 48 hours.

I'm not sure how many of you follow NBA but this tactic is quite similar to the Lakers Bronny James situation. Bronny has been a controversial media focus of the Lakers since he was drafted and instead of delaying his debut, the Lakers coach played him off the bench alongside his dad in the first game of the season. Got the whole debut over and done with, ripped the band aid off.

The biggest difference here though is JS isn't a nepo baby and can actually play his sport well.
Great! let's see what we are paying for. My prediction, based on faith in Schmidt is that he will go well. Then Kerevi to drive holes with offloads to give us a chance at a win.
Can't wait.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
JS starting at 12, Ikitau at 13. Wow.

Talk about throwing the bloke in the deep end. But why the hell not, we need him to be ready for the Lions and this is a pretty good way to do it.
 

LeCheese

Greg Davis (50)
Doran's mail has changed to confirm JS 12, Ikitau 13 - however:
Although he will have the No.12 jersey on his back, it’s believed the 21-year-old will attack at outside centre with Ikitau to play second five-eighth with ball-in-hand.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I know 13 has a reputation as being the hardest position defensively in terms of individual decision making.

But every team I’ve been involved in and, more importantly everything I’ve read about pro rugby it is your 12 who organises your defence. From that perspective having by Ikitau at 12 hopefully the defensive structure is improved.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Half the time our 10 usually shifts out the back in defense with whichever winger slotting in to the 13 role and everyone else slides in anyway.

Really just goal line D where we usually have players defending in position
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Half the time our 10 usually shifts out the back in defense with whichever winger slotting in to the 13 role and everyone else slides in anyway.

Really just goal line D where we usually have players defending in position


Kellaway was actually quite impressive defending at 13 in the second half against Wales in 2022...

As long as it doesn't get to Nathan Grey or Eddie levels of confusing I'm sure they can switch around depending on the situation.
 

Namerican

Bill Watson (15)
Defending at 12 vs. 13 isn't super relevant against England as they barely ever run the ball, and when they do they don't go wide all that often. There might be 2-3 times when they come through that channel with any level of danger all game, usually with multiple running options. So I don't think anyone will be overly tested in those areas. It isn't like playing NZ, or even Ireland.

I'd be more worried about England's stout defense and carrying/rucking as someone who has not played union lately. If Oz decide to run the ball then there are plenty of opportunities to muck that up and take penalties.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
What an absolute hiding to nothing. Fisher's shitty defensive structure has made Ikitau look like a rookie let alone Sua'ali'i.
I did find it odd that both Ikitau and Valetini (as well as plenty of others) seemed to struggle with Fisher’s defence system at times. Just because I would assume they would be guys who would already be comfortable in it and both are generally good defenders.

Honestly I think Ikitau has been a bit below his best in the tests this year. But I don’t know if that is an individual thing or whether it is a combination of factors in particular relating to other players around him. I tend to suspect the later and hope the combinations start coming together.

For the record he’s still my first picked back - but just feel he’s been a touch out of his groove at times.
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
I'd be more worried about England's stout defense and carrying/rucking as someone who has not played union lately. If Oz decide to run the ball then there are plenty of opportunities to muck that up and take penalties.
Lawrence is no slouch in the ruck, target any ruck that Joseph is the first supporter.
 

Homer

Bill Watson (15)
SO with JAS and Lenny in the middle, then Pietsch is in with Wright and Kellaway unless Jorgo or Potter have done something amazing at training. Samu on the bench with Donno means JAS moves to the back three if there is an injury or does Potter on the bench instead of Samu cover more bases?
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Simon Poidevin (60)
I did find it odd that both Ikitau and Valetini (as well as plenty of others) seemed to struggle with Fisher’s defence system at times. Just because I would assume they would be guys who would already be comfortable in it and both are generally good defenders.

Honestly I think Ikitau has been a bit below his best in the tests this year. But I don’t know if that is an individual thing or whether it is a combination of factors in particular relating to other players around him. I tend to suspect the later and hope the combinations start coming together.

For the record he’s still my first picked back - but just feel he’s been a touch out of his groove at times.
He looks like he's been bothered by some minor injuries.

Valetini seems to get found out in the lateral movement. The Wallabies seem to want to be spread in defence from the start and not be tight and then push the attack and use the sideline. Because of this we have bigger bodies with gaps to their sides. Any half decent 9/10 will have runners aim at these spaces knowing tired big guys cant get there.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
SO with JAS and Lenny in the middle, then Pietsch is in with Wright and Kellaway unless Jorgo or Potter have done something amazing at training. Samu on the bench with Donno means JAS moves to the back three if there is an injury or does Potter on the bench instead of Samu cover more bases?
It's probably Kerevi and Donaldson on the bench. That said it might be that in the event of a back 3 injury Donaldson comes in at fullback with Wright moving to a wing before they shift Sua'ali'i out, assuming they don't want to complicate it for him anymore than it already is.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Gotta say. I fucking hate that combo (right now) yeah, they're a big pairing but we have unknowns about both.

One coming back to Rugby with 4 years not playing and the other out of Japan and the last we saw him it was less than impressive. It has potential but If I was England I'd be running everything through them and seeing how the communication and movement is.
If only there were some smart rugby heads travelling with the team checking which players looked good enough and who didn't. /s
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
If only there were some smart rugby heads travelling with the team checking which players looked good enough and who didn't. /s
I've found Schmidt to be pretty conservative in his selections which makes me feel like Joseph must be real magic in training for him to trust him this much.
 
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