England v Wallabies, Twickenham, Sun 10th Nov 2:10AEDT / 1:10AEST

[Pfitzy]

Our first try: it was clear from minute 1 that England were shitting themselves on the threat of Sua'ali'i alone. Watch how hard Firbank comes in thinking they need to double team him. Two Wallabies outside for an easy score

That is also partly England's lack of nous and trust for the inside ball once the ball gets to the edge - Marcus Smith caught in no man's land on Ikitau to create space for Jorgensen on the last try.

 

[Sully]

What benefits do you think Skelton would bring to the team? I have never been a fan but haven't watched him much in recent times and know that he is well regarded in France. But apart from scrummaging what would he offer over Frost and Williams (who I thought played well)?

Less.

Less lineouts, less rucks hit, less ground covered, less tackles made, less time on the field.

 

[Pfitzy]

Scrum at 29:15 - Tupou's feet are too far back. That's an easy penalty if you're the loosehead: just take a bit of weight off.

Easy fix too, but it shouldn't be an issue for a professional THP to start with

 

[dru]

Less.

Less lineouts, less rucks hit, less ground covered, less tackles made, less time on the field.

More muscle and mass. More impact in the rucks he does hit. More penetration over the gain line when it comes together.

But mostly as you say, Sully, less.

 

[emuarse]

I agree if he wants to see him in play he’ll have to pick him in the next 2 games and I feel he probably will.

Maybe it’s just a big day for me to back my favourite played but personally I think the combo of Wilson, McReight & Valetini has been a real positive even in the RC. Maybe I’m looking through red coloured glasses but I wouldn’t be breaking them up and I therefore wouldn’t be starting Skelton. So maybe you bring him off the bench with Williams moving to 6 when he comes on and Wilson making way.

Personally I think Skelton’s selection is still problematic in that it compromises other selections. Like you say - he is a unique player profile. That is a strength and a weakness IMO. And I like how Williams & Frost are developing as a locking pair and Salakai-Loto gives us a big, athletic presence off the bench.

I definitely wouldn’t be bringing Kerevi in unless he is 100%. Even then I’m dubious. Who for? After rolling the dice on Ikitau & Sua’ali’i I’m bot breaking them up after that performance. And Jorgensen is a more flexibly reserve with Kellaway able to cover the centres.

Anyway - in Joe I trust.

Both of them.

Interestingly, in the post match media session with Joe, he was very much impressed with the performance of the loose forwards.
I don't see him changing that combination unless Wilson has to have a concussion break, in which case Bobby V to No 8, Williams to 6, and bring Skelton in.

 

[Brumby Runner]

wow wow wow what a day, I have to now go apologise to my neighbours. Most enjoyable game I’ve watched in a long time. Fuck England sooo much, biggest bunch of smug assholes. It is pretty funny though that they are every nation’s #1 enemy so each game they play is an awful grudge match.

Don’t know how to split Ikitau, Bell, Valetini, Wright for the top gong. Can’t ignore Wright I think, his involvements were genuinely game breaking. Hope Curry is okay, he’s a great player but fuck me trying to tackle Bell & Valetini in a row is terrifying.

Suddenly one of our weakest areas, kick offs, has become a huge defensive win and attacking weapon. Williams was impeccable in the air. Then Sua’ali’i was amazing getting it back on kick offs. What a freak, I am nervous he’ll get done flying into a lifted person in the air and get yellow carded.

One negative is our defense. We can’t rely on our attack to score 42 points every game. 37 points is way too much to let in, hopefully we can fix up that blindside winger area where we let in 2 Sleighthome tries pretty easily.

Also I guess William’s lucky try evens up some of BOK’s bizarre calls. He was so quick to penalise us yet would always just do short arms for us.

England really really missed Curry and another onballer, they didn’t get any turnovers, Cunningham-South and Earls are good but they need to get over the ball more. Also surprised how quiet Immanuel was, he’s a freak.

Think those tries were scored on our open side Dct.

 

[Pfitzy]

Scrum at 29:15 - Tupou's feet are too far back. That's an easy penalty if you're the loosehead: just take a bit of weight off.

Easy fix too, but it shouldn't be an issue for a professional THP to start with

Scrum at 38:15 backs up the England LHP trying to fade again - BOK gets the call from the AR that they've pulled away.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think he has to play Skelton in these next two just to see where he might fit in for the Lions series. I'm not sure who drops out as I agree I'd be tempted to name the same squad again, but Skelton also adds a dimension in being a type of player that we don't really have a like replacement for currently.

I actually think it's a shame that the Irish test is outside the window as that's the game I would have loved to have seen him in.

I'm curious to know where Kerevi is at with his match fitness and what the coaches are thinking. Bit of a interesting dilemma for the coaches as I feel you want to give the Sua'ali'i / Ikitau combo probably more time if they think this is the combo they may go with for the Lions.

I reckon Skelton and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) are tasked with the same job and are therefore in competition for a spot. If Skelton starts, and I personally wouldn't be going there after this test, then it looks like Williams might move to 6 and Valetini to 8. A choice might need to be made between LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Gleeson on the bench but in that case I'd prefer to stck with Gleeson so LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) looks like he might be the one to drop out. I am assuming Wilson will need a week's break for HIA recovery.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I got up this morning and watched the replay. Wow. That's one of the best ever Wallaby performances in the UK for mine. And they won it in the tough stuff too. The pigs were outstanding in the loose after the 15 minute mark. Great body height, great accuracy for the most part and most importantly, those short balls to support players in close (a Schmidt hallmark).

I was worried (and said so during the week) about whether we'd got the centre combo right, in that I thought Joseph should play 12 and Len at 13. I was wrong and very happy about it. JS was an absolute revelation. He sucked in so many defenders and his passing at the gain line was first class. He adds a totally different dimension to our backline and I have to comment on how good Len looked at 12. So many times his hands and feet were absolute weapons in traffic. That ball he got away to Max to seal the game was outstanding.

Just keep doing what we did last night boys and keep improving. That win brought this Wallaby fan of 40+ years a great deal of joy.

 

[Ignoto]

But apart from scrummaging what would he offer over Frost and Williams (who I thought played well)?

I thought Frost had an ok game. For every good involvement he had, he had an equally poor involvement. This was primarily around throwing passes that weren't needed to be passed, the ball would either be given to a support person in a worst position and one less person to secure the ball or the pass was thrown to ground.

I'm half keen to see what a pairing of Lukhan and Skelton could do to help counter teams that like to play slow.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I should also say that I really admired the guts and daring the boys showed and should have also mentioned Tom Wright, who I thought had by far his best game in gold. That's the 15 jersey locked down for me if he keeps playing like that.

 

[BDA]

A lot of of talk of changes to the start lineup. From what we've seen of schmidt 's selections this year, you'd think we'd get the same starting 15 next week provided all are fit. Then again with 4 tough games in 4 weeks you have to wonder whether the coaching staff plan to rotate some of the starters... probably not but its possible. I think the most likely outcome is that we see a slightly different bench. Id definitely have kailea on the bench. I wouldnt hate skelton getting a bench spot either just to give him a crack

 

[Wilson]

Yep, it's in perfect balance imo. Don't know why we'd change it to fit in a lock.

I'm not sure it needs to change to fit in Skelton at this stage. Wilson has been jumping quite well this year, better than I think anyone expected. They also look to be experimenting a bit with throwing Valetini up which didn't quite work in this game but it's good to see they're rounding out those skillsets and adding options.

 

[griffins]

Late to the party sorry.

Bit unsure about some of the definitive takes here. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that didn't contribute positively but a lot of those mentioned had troubling errors as well. Most notably Frost with some abysmal defence in the lead up to an early England try, Wright under the high ball and a skittish decision after a kickoff reveipt. For all his running talent McDermott's core skills are still inacceptable - hitting Valetini in the foot with a short pass on our own line pkus sone average kicking could have cost us the game.

All of these are fixable, and Wright in particular has worked hard to reduce his error rate with his best involvements being absolutely sublime. But unfortunately its these things that have cost us winnable games in the past and we simply musnt regress vs Wales next week.

Also a bit miffed on the Lolesio criticism. He has had some average games this year but that wasn't one of them. Kicked well (including short), coped with rush and took the line on when required. Produced a similar game to DMac at the same venue last week who was lauded. It wasn't perfect but steering us to a win at Twickenham, for the first time in nearly a decade (?), is not to be sneezed at.

 

[Thalium]

I suspect if Wilson does need to sit the week out they could put Skelton at 8.

 

[Pfitzy]

I suspect if Wilson does need to sit the week out they could put Skelton at 8.

 

[TSR]

Late to the party sorry.

Bit unsure about some of the definitive takes here. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that didn't contribute positively but a lot of those mentioned had troubling errors as well. Most notably Frost with some abysmal defence in the lead up to an early England try, Wright under the high ball and a skittish decision after a kickoff reveipt. For all his running talent McDermott's core skills are still inacceptable - hitting Valetini in the foot with a short pass on our own line pkus sone average kicking could have cost us the game.

All of these are fixable, and Wright in particular has worked hard to reduce his error rate with his best involvements being absolutely sublime. But unfortunately its these things that have cost us winnable games in the past and we simply musnt regress vs Wales next week.

Also a bit miffed on the Lolesio criticism. He has had some average games this year but that wasn't one of them. Kicked well (including short), coped with rush and took the line on when required. Produced a similar game to DMac at the same venue last week who was lauded. It wasn't perfect but steering us to a win at Twickenham, for the first time in nearly a decade (?), is not to be sneezed at.

I actually hadn’t noticed any Lolesio criticism.

Agree this was a solid game from him.

 

[stillmissit]

I think he has to play Skelton in these next two just to see where he might fit in for the Lions series. I'm not sure who drops out as I agree I'd be tempted to name the same squad again, but Skelton also adds a dimension in being a type of player that we don't really have a like replacement for currently.

I actually think it's a shame that the Irish test is outside the window as that's the game I would have loved to have seen him in.

I'm curious to know where Kerevi is at with his match fitness and what the coaches are thinking. Bit of a interesting dilemma for the coaches as I feel you want to give the Sua'ali'i / Ikitau combo probably more time if they think this is the combo they may go with for the Lions.

Frost out and Skelton to start with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) on bench. Williams and Wilson OK with McRight as fast lift.

 

[Steve_Grey]

That last try, as noted above - doesn't matter how experienced you are, there's always a temptation to step in because you don't trust your inside man.

M Smith found guilty, and Ikitau exploited with a sublime slip pass. Ikitau was actually tackled by his man, and Smith allowed the offload to MJ (who nailed the catch and run at last).

 

[griffins]

Also just on Ikitau (its his best game in 12 months etc): it's amazing the difference it made with him getting regular ball. Brums and Walls default structure has been 12 trucking/ball playing with Len constantly getting burned as a decoy/support line. Was no surprise at all to see him thrive with more chances. I had hoped forever that they might try and give him a few more one on ones early at 13, and would also love to see this tried with Suallii as well, but given JAS seemed comfortable at 13 I see no reason to change now.

Important to also note the impact Ikitau had turning shit ball into a quick ruck before both of our first two tries.