England v Australia

[Gagger]

Foley's recent form has been average and that apparently is not enough to get Cooper a look in.

The bold bit is correct - so take your pick:

1 - Despite winning two European Cups and a Super Rugby title as coach, Michael Chieka can't recognise rugby talent

2 - Michael Cheika does recognise superior talent, but is so wedded to his Waratahs pals that he would rather lose international test matches and jeopardise the rest of his coaching career and legacy than select better players from other provinces

3 - Bitter parochiality is clouding your judgement

 

[Train Without a Station]

If Cooper returns to the form shown on last EOYT then he's in with a shake. I hope he does.
I also hope we see Pocock and Moore regain their former glory. Injuries change players abilities.
I did like Cooper's grubber and chase that ended up with the Irish #9 in Disneyland.

Could have done it on this EOYT. You wouldn't know.

 

[Train Without a Station]

So Gagger past success means that Cheika is incapable of a poor selection?

 

[cyclopath]

I'm not saying its out of the question, I'm simply saying that the fact that Cooper didn't get 1 chance to start this tour suggests Cheika has made his mind up that he currently prefers Foley. Given that we've lost 5 from our last 6 I would have thought Cooper should at least get a look in.

So did I.
But he's still a really good chance to be in there.

 

[qwerty51]

vs France

Cooper comes on at 23-19 and is given 20 minutes. Final score 29-26.

vs Ireland

Cooper comes on at 23-20 and is given 16 minutes. Final score 23-20.

Cooper's points differential here is 7-6 +1 after 36 minutes. To suggest he's coming on and running the attack better is pretty false. It's not enough to displace the incumbent in Cheika's eyes.

 

[BDA]

Hey QLDers.
What was the last game that QC (Quade Cooper) really dominated in?
Then have a look at Foley through the finals of the S15.
QC (Quade Cooper) was excellent on the last EOYT.
Since then he has not done enough to displace a player who is in top form ATM.
Is it because he was in a team that didn't make the S15 finals?
Is it because he is returning from injury?
The reasons don't really matter. In a team situation if it aint broke don't fix it

Why is it that people who want Cooper to play 5/8 have to be Qlders.

 

[Viking]

A reputation of good form.

You use the term incumbent as if Foley was a first choice player. He was not. He was selected due to injury to the incumbent. Therefore giving himself the opportunity to put in better performance's than the injured player and become first choice. He's become first choice but he certainly hasn't put in better performances.

In something like 11 starts he has hardly put in a single complete performance as a 10. He has performed well at times, but still shown to be lacking as a test flyhalf. Lucky for Foley he's only been a Super Rugby starter for 3 seasons and is only 25, so there's a good chance he will improve those areas.

If people want to still talk about Beale's 2010 form than Cooper's 2013 is certainly relevant.

Our lack of depth at 12 also works in Foley's favour. If we had a lock in 12 and To'omua was considered for the 10 position and not the 12, then his chances of being selected over Foley is pretty damn good. 50/50 at least on super rugby form - personally I would give it to To'omua as he has less weaknesses.

But To'omua is considered an option at 12 only. Lucky for Foley.

 

[Gagger]

So Gagger past success means that Cheika is incapable of a poor selection?

No.

But when you make the ridiculously fuckwitted statements about this all being about NSW bias and that QC (Quade Cooper) is just so obviously the better player - like you have umpteen times across umpteen threads - then they are the three options.

Pick one, and then stop bleating the fuck on

 

[BDA]

vs France

Cooper comes on at 23-19 and is given 20 minutes. Final score 29-26.

vs Ireland

Cooper comes on at 23-20 and is given 16 minutes. Final score 23-20.

Cooper's points differential here is +1 after 36 minutes. That is not enough to displace the incumbent in Cheika's eyes.

?? By that system wouldn't Foley be -7 after 124 minutes? how is that better. Are you saying Cooper shouldn't get a shot at 10 because he's not coming on and saving those games from the losing position Foley had us in.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Why is it that people who want Cooper to play 5/8 have to be Qlders.

That says one of two things:

1. Queenslanders are objective and astute rugby critics:
2. See point 1 above.

 

[chasmac]

No.

But when you make the ridiculously fuckwitted statements about this all being about NSW bias and that QC (Quade Cooper) is just so obviously the better player - like you have umpteen times across umpteen threads - then they are the three options.

Pick one, and then stop bleating the fuck on

I'll drink to that !!

 

[qwerty51]

?? By that system wouldn't Foley be -7 after 124 minutes? how is that better. Are you saying Cooper shouldn't get a shot at 10 because he's not coming on and saving those games from the losing position Foley had us in.

According to Cheika yes! He's not seeing enough to displace the incumbent.

 

[KOB1987]

all this uproar seems to be about the selection of Foley over QC (Quade Cooper)..it could be argued that the selection of either Skelton or Beale in the XV, both of which were very possible, would have also caused this..

I also would have liked QC (Quade Cooper) to get a start but I wasn't sold on it, he hasn't really done anything that screamed out 'pick me' off the bench, despite his fresh legs..the reality is that Cheika has only been with the side a short while, needs a win, and has only 5 games until the RWC starts, so now isn't his time to experiment..in fact he has no time, he just has to pick a side that he thinks can win..

 

[BDA]

The bold bit is correct - so take your pick:

1 - Despite winning two European Cups and a Super Rugby title as coach, Michael Chieka can't recognise rugby talent

2 - Michael Cheika does recognise superior talent, but is so wedded to his Waratahs pals that he would rather lose international test matches and jeopardise the rest of his coaching career and legacy than select better players from other provinces

3 - Bitter parochiality is clouding your judgement

What about Foley's recent form has been so great that last year's incumbent shouldn't get a look in? 1 win from the last 6 tests!! Again I'm not saying that either Foley or Cooper is better. I like both as an option. I'm just surprised / disappointed that we haven't seen Cooper start once given the poor results.

 

[Brumby Runner]

In the main, it is only Tahs' fans who are justifying the continued selection of Bernard Foley in preference to Cooper. Most of the posters who support other franchises sem to hold the view that Cooper has done enough to have started in this last test of the year. And that is hardly provincialism on the part of Brumbies, Rebels or Force fans. The opposite could very reasonably be seen as bias on the part of Tahs' supporters.

I think again it is a lost opportunity. Quade offers things that are so different to Bernard that imo he should have been given an opportunity to see if he can help get the Wallabies back into winning mode. BF has hardy had an outstanding tour and his last couple of games have been quite a bit below par.

In relation to the remainder of the selected team, like others I would have liked to see Jones get another go. Maybe he is being saved as the bench lock? My preference would have been McMahon on the bench and Jones to move from 6 to lock if the need arose. I would have preferred Tomane to Horne on the wing (my bias) but I can live with Rob and expect him to play strong.

I will be disappointed if Skelton again makes the bench. He does not perform the core role of a lock and the set piece will probably really go to shit against the strong Poms forwards pack if he gets on.

I don't think we will be well served if both Cooper and Beale are on the bench, but if only one makes it you can bet it will be Beale. If that happens, and if Skelton is also on the bench then I think there quite reasonably should be questions asked about Cheika's selections. Quite simply, there are better players than both in the squad.

 

[Train Without a Station]

No.

But when you make the ridiculously fuckwitted statements about this all being about NSW bias and that QC (Quade Cooper) is just so obviously the better player - like you have umpteen times across umpteen threads - then they are the three options.

Pick one, and then stop bleating the fuck on

Cheika appears to be picking due to bias. Not some stupid notion of parochial bias. Simply due to the bias of familiarity. He knows what foley brings having coached him all year.

Considering Cooper doesn't have that opportunity it seems biased.

It's not sinister, it's not devious, it's not untoward, it's just somewhat of a conservative selection due to familiarity and reluctance to accept the risk of change despite the potential upside and lack of success from the status quo.

 

[qwerty51]

What about Foley's recent form has been so great that last year's incumbent shouldn't get a look in? 1 win from the last 6 tests!! Again I'm not saying that either Foley or Cooper is better. I like both as an option. I'm just surprised / disappointed that we haven't see Cooper start once given the poor results.

Have you not been following Cheika's career in Aus since 2013 at all? He sticks to what he believes in, that the results will come and he's doing it the right way. Go look at the Tahs 2013 season. It turned a corner about halfway through. He didn't make changes, stuck with it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

all this uproar seems to be about the selection of Foley over QC (Quade Cooper)..it could be argued that the selection of either Skelton or Beale in the XV, both of which were very possible, would have also caused this.

Well considering the uproar is regarding a player chosen over a superior option, then yes.

 

[BDA]

all this uproar seems to be about the selection of Foley over QC (Quade Cooper)..it could be argued that the selection of either Skelton or Beale in the XV, both of which were very possible, would have also caused this..

Yes well the selection of Beale ahead of guys who were on tour originally and didn't even get a look in really just fanned the flames of speculation that Cheika prefers to choose his NSW players.

 

[Brumby Runner]

vs France

Cooper comes on at 23-19 and is given 20 minutes. Final score 29-26.

vs Ireland

Cooper comes on at 23-20 and is given 16 minutes. Final score 23-20.

Cooper's points differential here is 7-6 +1 after 36 minutes. To suggest he's coming on and running the attack better is pretty false. It's not enough to displace the incumbent in Cheika's eyes.

But Foley's points differential is -7 and that's enough to keep the challenger at bay?