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England v Australia

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drewprint

Alan Cameron (40)
In all this ridiculous argument about Cooper not getting a go, didn't he start the game against the Barbarians?

Now people have made the argument that he needs to get a chance alongside Phipps who is our best halfback at the moment, but it's hardly a compelling argument. Many of the same people are also arguing that given time, Genia will be our starting halfback again. If that's the case, it's somewhat ridiculous to claim that Cooper's chances are being ruined by having to play with Genia. If Cooper had put together a better performance in that Barbarians game, he may have got a start at the end of the tour. As it stood, he looked like he was short of a run.

As it stands he's been getting minutes from the bench in each game. Realistically, I think he created an excellent try against France but hasn't done a huge amount else.

Cooper's case for starting is more along the lines of suggesting Foley should be dropped rather than Cooper promoted. In a tour where the coach is new and trying to implement a different structure to what the team were used to previously, it's always going to be more likely that he's going to opt for stability over shaking things up each match.

In general, Australia seems to have an unholy fascination with heaping blame on the 10 every time we lose, regardless of the situation of the match. It applied when Cooper was the 10. It applied to the couple of tests Beale was 10 and is now being applied to Foley at 10. We've become better at heaping praise on the forwards when they do well, but seemingly when they don't and we lose, it's mostly the 10's fault.


I don't know about others but the reason I'd like to see Cooper with Phipps would be to see how he went with Phipps' lightning quick service. I've been really impressed with Phipps, and I think Cooper could have a field day with fast ball and a back-pedalling defence.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
So you're happy to ignore his last few games and write him off based on a his first international game for back from injury. Yet you support foley who has been solid but not really looked the goods over the whole tour? That seems fair to me.

No.
I don't think Foley is the medium/long term solution.
But QC (Quade Cooper) did not do anything in the Baa Ba''s game to convince me he's ready.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I reckon foley is a safe option. Very consistent, rarely terrible and you can base a game around him if you have strike players from 11 to 15. I can understand why cheika persists with him. Personaly though, I reckon quade is our 10 for the RWC and that foley will be the perfect bench option by then.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Re the whole Foley v Cooper, I think this is a legitimate, fair discussion we should be having.

Foley has generally played well and I dont begrudge his selection. He is a different player to Cooper and has had a great year. I dont mind his selection as our starting 10 and having Foley and Cooper for the WC is a good choice of 10s.

Still the point of the discussion is to talk about our options. We always need to be striving to be better. I think the concern of most people, certainly my concern, is that Cooper will get overlooked. Some people are afraid that Cheika will give preference to his Tah players. Whilst that is yet to be proven, the selection of Beale has certainly raised my level of concern that that may be the case.

It would have been nice to see Cooper get a start on tour, at some point. I thik the argument put forward that Cooper is still returning to full fitness and form (something Seb V mentioned earlier) is a fair call. Still, any time we are losing as much as we are, questions need to be asked about whether the players we are choosing are the best options, particularly when the players waiting for a chance are of the pedigree of Cooper.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
If you blokes win by more than 15 you're up to 3rd in the rankings again. Therefore I'm shouting for a Wallabies victory by 14
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
Not meaning to detract from the exhilarating foley v cooper debate but whats with the penchant for shoehorneing centres into the team on the wing?
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I just checked.
Apparently Cooper started at 10 against the Barbarians.
Can people please stop saying or implying that he has not been given a start on this tour or has not been given enough game time.


And its not Cooper's fault that he has often had to come on with the third-best scrumhalf in the party as his service manager.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I've just come to the realisation that this game isn't being broadcast on FTA. I thought Ten had made a mistake in their guide, then remembered the Poms are utter fluffybunnies for jacking up pricing rights. Clearly Ten didn't want to pay.

Fuck everyone involved. Right in the ear.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Not meaning to detract from the exhilarating foley v cooper debate but whats with the penchant for shoehorneing centres into the team on the wing?


Horne played on the wing all this year in the winning Supe team, which also happened to be the one that scored the most points. Horne himself scored some very good tries including one pearler. And he's a beast on defence. Not a shoehorne at all.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
While we're here: I am SO glad that everyone wearing a horse's head or purple koala badge has decided that Foley and Skelton can't POSSIBLY get any better despite being around 12 months into their international careers. Poor bastards - they've peaked in their early 20s and now have nothing to look forward to.

And there is no hope for them in this Wallaby squad with the examples they've got to follow. Look at blokes like Quade - never got past the stupid haircut, poor personal judgement, below par kicking game, hoppy-skippy attacking style with the added fear of contact and transfer of pressure as well as never making a tackle. Gotta feel sorry for a guy who debuted in 2008 and hasn't ever played better since, right?

Hang on a minute............. THAT WAS SARCASM!!!!
 

troxler

Sydney Middleton (9)
I've just come to the realisation that this game isn't being broadcast on FTA. I thought Ten had made a mistake in their guide, then remembered the Poms are utter fluffybunnies for jacking up pricing rights. Clearly Ten didn't want to pay.

Fuck everyone involved. Right in the ear.


Yeh they had announced it on rugby.com.au that ch 10 would not be showing Baa baa's game and the poms at the start of the tour...have to make other arrangements!.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Baabaas I understand because it isn't a Test. But this is the national game dammit!

Fucking awful. Not even a replay? They're putting the Wales game on around 6AM I think on ONE.
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
Horne played on the wing all this year in the winning Supe team, which also happened to be the one that scored the most points. Horne himself scored some very good tries including one pearler. And he's a beast on defence. Not a shoehorne at all.

Understandable in the tahs as he is behind AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and is quality enough in their roster to command a start.
But the wallabies have 5 teams to chose from and there are better wingers elsewhere.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Understandable in the tahs as he is behind AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and is quality enough in their roster to command a start.
But the wallabies have 5 teams to chose from and there are better wingers elsewhere.


Unfortunately a lot of them got injured or were playing outside less able inside backs. Or had higher commitments like the Badge.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
While we're here: I am SO glad that everyone wearing a horse's head or purple koala badge has decided that Foley and Skelton can't POSSIBLY get any better despite being around 12 months into their international careers. Poor bastards - they've peaked in their early 20s and now have nothing to look forward to.

And there is no hope for them in this Wallaby squad with the examples they've got to follow. Look at blokes like Quade - never got past the stupid haircut, poor personal judgement, below par kicking game, hoppy-skippy attacking style with the added fear of contact and transfer of pressure as well as never making a tackle. Gotta feel sorry for a guy who debuted in 2008 and hasn't ever played better since, right?

Hang on a minute..... THAT WAS SARCASM!!!!

Pfitzy, you are so far behind the times. The issue of Ch 10 not telecasting the game was done to death about 4 - 8 pages ago. Now... THAT IS SARCASM.

And just to put the record staright, I think it is possible for Skelton to get a lot better. He just needs to learn how to scrummage. I think mostly the Wallabies could afford to carry him in the Lineouts, like they did Timani, so long as he becomes the monster in the scrums he has shown he can be in mauls. But i do think that's at least another Super year away.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Understandable in the tahs as he is behind AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and is quality enough in their roster to command a start.
But the wallabies have 5 teams to chose from and there are better wingers elsewhere.

Perhaps, but Cheika didn't pick the squad - it was picked before he was appointed.
 
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