England v Australia, Saturday 3 December

[waiopehu oldboy]

After playing with the calculator, there's not quite enough points that can be exchanged to see both of Wales and Ireland finish ahead of Australia in May.

I suspected that was the case but tbh lost interest in doing the actual calcs at about Round 4 of the 6N, by then there's just too many permutations to get my head around

 

[wamberal]

Speaking of basics, pretty remarkable stat from the game, neither our 5/8 or fullback kicked it a single time in general play (ESPN stats).

That can't have happened too many times in international rugby

Depends on your definition of the word "kick". Neither of them can kick properly, so arguably this has been the case every time they have both played together.


But seriously, this is amazing. How easy must it be to coach against us? The kick threat is nonexistent.

 

[Highlander35]

I suspected that was the case but tbh lost interest in doing the actual calcs at about Round 4 of the 6N, there's just too many permutations to get my head around

Permutations are meh.

Ireland and Wales win all the other matches by 15+ to maximise point gain. Italy lose all their matches because they effectively "remove" points from the pool due to how far away they are from everyone else.

Then you fiddle with the remaining 4 matches (England v France, France v Scotland, Wales v Ireland and England v Scotland) to ensure they have the highest totals possible when they play Wales or Ireland without England dropping below Australia.

By my count, French win, Scotland win, England win achieved that, ("Big" Points flow England->France->Scotland->Wales, particularly due to Scotland losing to Ireland at home in the opener, and everybody winning away).

That still left one short by somewhere between 0.4 and 1.2 depending on Win/lose/draw and margin on the match between the two of them.

 

[The sage]

Irish pack is probably number 1 tbh. English and kiwi equal second. Kiwi backs are miles ahead of the Irish and English backs.

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No shiggins the kiwis are #1 in both. We are probably #4 in the forwards are equal third in the backs


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[Shiggins]

No shiggins the kiwis are #1 in both. We are probably #4 in the forwards are equal third in the backs


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No sage

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[Brumby Runner]

Sorry to say kaop cooper is not the answer. That said didn't really get an opportunity. Bit of a poison chalice being down by as much as we were and getting the time he did. Even with that said he's not the answer. Foley even though sometimes not the playmaker u want, does the basics well; sometimes all u need are the basics.


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Sure, if you're content with a 40% winning result over a calendar year of tests.

 

[The sage]

^^^^
That will change


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[TOCC]

The issue is he isn't doing the basics well, his tactical kicking has been poor all year.. other areas of his game improved but not his kicking, it has regressed since 2015

 

[boyo]

he regained possession with the right hand before the ball hit the ground, then grounded it = try

Here's the definition of a knock-on:

A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

It goes forward off his hand and he didn't subsequently catch it. Touching it with his other hand is not catching it.

 

[Joe Blow]

When does the Super Rugby season start and WTF are we supposed to do until then?

 

[Dan54]

I no longer feel the same passion that I did for the Wallabies from about 2012 through to the World Cup.

Aside from the Scotland and BILs games, I loved every win, and bemoaned and got angry at every loss.

I thought it was just the Fox Sports arrogance, and a little bit of Schadenfreude based on that.

But it continued. And I think that's a combination of Cheika, Moore and a minority of very poor losers.

Highlander, I understand where you coming form a lot, while I am an AB supporter, and still am and always will be, I am losing some enthusiasm for test rugby in general, particularly between NZ/Aus because I find the minority of 'fans' (and I use the word loosely) from both countries are taking away the enjoyment of it. Perhaps I getting old, but I have always found I enjoyed being able to discuss rugby with people from allover the world with whoever they support and found that we may like different players, styles of play etc etc, we now seem to be just getting non stop excuses why our team lost, didn't win by as much as we thought, why the other fans are really not as good as we are, and are bad sports because they don't agree with me etc. Ok I dislike intensely the booing of Quade (and I actually tell people to shut up when I hear it), but actually don't know any kiwi that does it personally, I felt the same about the rubbish Richie copped from fans here, but most proper knowledgeable rugby fans don't really get into any of that crap in my opinion. I not sure if it rugby forums, the press from the countries that are helping to spoil game for us, I personally find things like the Clown cartoons from both NZ and Aus papers bad taste, and the ad done by Kearnsie, Marto, Horan and Kafe before the poms came here even probably more disappointing as they former players.
And not every ref is against Wallabies, All Blacks or whoever you support, they just referee to best of their ability and make mistakes as do players who are not useless bacause they make a mistake or odd bad decision in game.
Anyway thats about it, just thought I would say I can see where you coming form, and think I need xmas off and then get back to watching my local club play, and remembering how much I really still love the game of rugby, and the reasons I have for most of my 62 years on earth.
Perhaps I just not the type to grace rugby forums.

 

[dru]

^^^^
That will change


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Where is the evidence of this? There is a difference between blind faith and hope. Right now, EOYT 2016 has removed all aspects of my blind faith.

Here are what I see as basics that are important improvements.

1. Forward pod structure
2. Defence structure
3. Transition between these two
4. Game plays to create gaps are "dialled in to the team knowledge.

Must do better, even if improving
5. Line out
6. Scrum
7. General handling

Atrocious, what is going on?
8. Tactical kicking
9. Any game tactics or strategy, at all, unless programmed in by Larkham/ Cheika

In short we have a solid and improving A Plan. Then nothing. That A Plan has not proven good enough to match top 5 teams, there is no rational reason to expect those top 5 teams to suddenly implode in order to make the A Plan more effective.

It has the hallmark of us settling in to being top 5 in stead of top 3. And I'd wager most Aus rugby fans expect us to have a chance to knock on the door on #1.

It bothers me that not only are we needing to live through the Cheika duration, but are setting up a follow up Cheika-esque with Larkham.

It's been said, but those two need to do some soul searching and work the thing through in the off season.

 

[Scotty]

Biggest issue Cheika needs to rectify immediately is his leadership.

Great leaders have positive and confident body language. Great leaders don't blame others. Great leaders take responsibility and show a vision for the way forward.

Stand up Michael. Ignore the pot shots and bad luck and show us you have a plan or vision for this team.

 

[Pfitzy]

Fucking hell this Quade v Foley debate drags on. Getting sick of it.

Both have strengths and weaknesses. Lack of a kicking game to get us out of trouble is Foley's, for sure. Quade's is consistency, but then who could except him to be consistent when he's been playing shitty T14 rugby, and even then barely taking the field.

All this talk is rubbish until we get some Super Rugby running again, and our players can get on the park and learn from last year.

In the meantime, this game is over. Lock the thread.

 

[I like to watch]

I'm not sure it's so much Foley v QC (Quade Cooper), as much as its wtf has to happen for Foleys position to be under threat.
Not even his mum would say he's been in good form in 2016.
It's not just that he's an automatic pick.
It's the fact that the coach deliberately gives the alternative no chance to see if he can improve things.

 

[Pfitzy]

It's the fact that the coach deliberately gives the alternative no chance to see if he can improve things.

No chance? Well, he had a couple of cracks at 10.

Now he gets a season with the Reds to prove he deserves it. Same with Foley.

If one is a standout over the other, they need to be selected.

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^ At the time when Quade was selected and played 10, it was widely accepted that he had outplayed Foley in his previous games there. After being replaced for the Auckland test, Quade was given virtually no chance at all to reestablish himself in the side.

 

[TOCC]

I'm not sure it's so much Foley v QC (Quade Cooper), as much as its wtf has to happen for Foleys position to be under threat.
Not even his mum would say he's been in good form in 2016.
It's not just that he's an automatic pick.
It's the fact that the coach deliberately gives the alternative no chance to see if he can improve things.

That is my perspective on the issue.. Foley at the RWC last year and the England match in particular was one of the best Wallaby 5/8 performance for years... his kicking, passing and decision making were on point that match and it put to bed any talk of QC (Quade Cooper).

2016 Foley is a shade of the 2015 Foley, I thought alternatives should at least have been reasonably tested in 2016 or at least given more game time

 

[I like to watch]

No chance? Well, he had a couple of cracks at 10.

Now he gets a season with the Reds to prove he deserves it. Same with Foley.

If one is a standout over the other, they need to be selected.

Both against the AB's,both with the underperforming Foley playing out of position outside him.

There were plenty of opportunities to give him 10 or more minutes this year (because sadly, the game was out of reach already).
It had to be a deliberate decision not to open that Pandora's box.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Both against the AB's,both with the underperforming Foley playing out of position outside him.

There were plenty of opportunities to give him 10 or more minutes this year (because sadly, the game was out of reach already).
It had to be a deliberate decision not to open that Pandora's box.

The same argument probably goes to the whole bench

It's not like the starters were playing the house down Being given a few minutes when the game is gone is a hiding to nothing. I think Chek's use of Quade was quite disgraceful. Anyway the results now speak for themselves.

Hard to compete against the Flower Mafia