England v Australia, Saturday 3 December

[Marcelo]

I prefer Ready instead Latu but he has not experience at test level to start a game vs England in Twickenham. This tour would has been perfect for that. Moore is a former test player, is time for Ready and Latu.

1 Sio
2 Latu
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Arnold
6 Fardy
7 Pocock (c)
8 Timani
9 Phipps
10 Foley
11 Naivalu
12 Hodge
13 Kuridrani
14 Haylett-Petty
15 Folau

16 Ready
17 Smith
18 Ala'alatoa
19 Douglas
20 Hooper
21 Stirzacker
22 Cooper
23 Morahan

 

[KOB1987]

Vunipola is out.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38125158

 

[KOB1987]

Don't need to worry about Mumm getting selected this week.

http://www.the42.ie/dean-mumm-cited-furlong-dangerous-3105676-Nov2016/

 

[Dave Beat]

A really off topic / thread question - but reference above to no Brodie Retallack or Jerome Kaino made me think of it (and our depth in the front row).

West Indies use to be unbeatable in the cricket - but they lost sight of the grass roots and or the pathway, and their depth disappeared. Basketball and other sports came in and started picking "sporting skill" and showing enjoyment & development.

Imagine if the likes of Jarred Waerea Hargreaves was kept in rugby after his breakout year in the ARC all those years ago.

65% of kids go to public high school, get in there as other codes pick some pretty strong teams from the high schools.

Sporting skill can cross over a number of codes; some kids are just blessed in sport, some academic
SBW.
Brad Thorn.

Jeff Wilson.

 

[Quick Hands]

Don't need to worry about Mumm getting selected this week.

http://www.the42.ie/dean-mumm-cited-furlong-dangerous-3105676-Nov2016/

No surpise with this. In view of his record, I'd expect him to get more than one match.

 

[dru]

It would be loonesy to weaken the line out. The scrum needs work in traning but also probably not some thing to play with in 1, 2, 3. Bench front row tweaks? Maybe.

Fardy for Mumm if there are citing issues. Genia gone Phipps in, Stirzaker to the bench (not confidence inspiring).

6/2 bench with an additional lock, god help us if this is Skelton.

I dont think there's any point putting Quade on the bench as IMO Cheika is not using him as a finisher and there are more rounded bench options. Either start him or run with Morahan and make way for another pig.

I think we are starting to see some implementation of the Grey and Larkham structures. England will demonstrate this further... or pull the thought apart.

Our attack pods lose something without Coleman and to be fair Timani. I wouldnt put Timani ahead of Hooper though, in the 1-3-3-1 structure that extra jumper takes the "up the middle in tight role". Not ideal but better than compromising the line out. In the tram tracks Hooper is better than Timani.

In the backs we seem to be avoiding confusion in the interregnum between attack and defence. 9 and 10 move to areas of less traffic in D, I have no problem with this. Our defence holds the middle with numbers and the rush, offering the wide opportunity to the opposition if they are good enough. This is shut down by the back three. So Folau stays at 15 even if he takes 12 in attack. DHP is fine and Speight's success needs to be read against the job he has been asked to implement.

No problem with Naivalu but I think we've been a touch harsh on Speight.

There is IMO a definitive game plan, and developing structures. I doubt there will be too many surprises in selection baring injury, citing, availability.

 

[wamberal]

Dave,


The reason that kids from the West Indies flocked to play basketball was pretty simple. Money. Lots of it.


Ditto for JWH. How many minutes did he actually play in the ARC? He had a pretty good agent, that's for sure. He was worth far more in league than he was in rugby, and he couldn't wait to get his hands on the money.

 

[Braveheart81]

As I predicted before the Ireland match Pooper would cost the wallabies

This seems like such an easy go to position anytime we don't win when both start.

Most would have them amongst our best players against Ireland.

We gave away 13 penalties to 3 and conceded 19 turnovers to 10.

I'd put the problem at the feet of our poor discipline and accuracy with the ball, particularly when we had great attacking opportunities.

Ireland were fantastic in the first half hour and I'm not sure what selection changes would have made any difference to that period of time. We were beaten across the park.

We fought back strongly in the second half and gave ourselves more than enough opportunities to win the game and couldn't do it.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^^
That's the worry for me.
We just weren't in the contest for the opening 30.
But different selections will only change things marginally.
Marginal improvements wouldn't have been a solution in the first 30 last week.

 

[dru]

This thing with Lopeti Timani (and the constant griping over Mumm) - the Rebels list him as a lock so why the hell cant he be taught to jump?

From the NZH stats in Super Rugby Timani has 10 catches no steals or one jump per game.

Mumm has 45 catches 2 steals or 3jumps per game.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/statscentre.cfm

I also love what the bloke does in that inner attack pod, but for crying out loud, if he wants a gold jumper there is a very obvious area he needs to be working on. He is big enough to punch it up the middle and he should be big enough to jump.

Compare with Itoje: Timani 193 cm 124 kg; Itoje 195 cm 116kg.

Instead of moaning his supporters should be urging him to do more. We lose Pocock next year and you'd think Timani would be a shoe in. But imagine if he came to the role as a fourth jumper (hell imagine wBs with 4 jumpers!) OR he jumps so well he ditches Mumm/Fardy alltogether and McMahon joins the fray.

The way for him to go forward is obvious.

 

[Twoilms]

This thing with Lopeti Timani (and the constant griping over Mumm) - the Rebels list him as a lock so why the hell cant he be taught to jump?

From the NZH stats in Super Rugby Timani has 10 catches no steals or one jump per game.

Mumm has 45 catches 2 steals or 3jumps per game.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/statscentre.cfm

I also love what the bloke does in that inner attack pod, but for crying out loud, if he wants a gold jumper there is a very obvious area he needs to be working on. He is big enough to punch it up the middle and he should be big enough to jump.

Compare with Itoje: Timani 193 cm 124 kg; Itoje 195 cm 116kg.

Instead of moaning his supporters should be urging him to do more. We lose Pocock next year and you'd think Timani would be a shoe in. But imagine if he came to the role as a fourth jumper (hell imagine wBs with 4 jumpers!) OR he jumps so well he ditches Mumm/Fardy alltogether and McMahon joins the fray.

The way for him to go forward is obvious.

I'm a bit of a fan of Soccer and this is a thing that blows my mind about professional sports persons. A Striker can very easily become an infinitely better player by learning to shoot off their weaker foot and yet so many fail to do it.

It's a bit of a theme in Australian Rugby. A lot of Wallabies have very easily identified flaws and it seems that few ever do much to address those short comings. A rare exception this season seems to be Simmo having a decent crack at carrying (even if he's still shit).

 

[fatprop]

I think we will lose this by 2 tries.

England will nulifiy us for long, long periods

 

[Strewthcobber]

This thing with Lopeti Timani (and the constant griping over Mumm) - the Rebels list him as a lock so why the hell cant he be taught to jump?


The way for him to go forward is obvious.

That'd be ideal dru, but he has a long way to go to get the proverbial "10,000 hours" required. You can even see it in Rory Arnold's relative lack of lineout ability - he came to the game later and hasn't had the practice that Simmons/Mumm/Douglas/Coleman/Carter/Jones etc have had their entire lives.

As with all skills it takes ability and practice, and he doesn't have either at the moment. Long road ahead, and probably on the journey, rather than at the destination, for another couple of years at least.

 

[fatprop]

Ireland were fantastic in the first half hour and I'm not sure what selection changes would have made any difference to that period of time. We were beaten across the park.

Nail on head, sometimes we get out played, this was one of those occasions.

But is was great to see the fight back (playing some great rugby) but it wasn't enough

 

[KevinO]

Ireland were fantastic in the first half hour and I'm not sure what selection changes would have made any difference to that period of time. We were beaten across the park.

This point is all that needs to be said about the game, if Ireland managed to avoid injuries I think the outcome would have been a lot different. Ireland had to finish the game with our reserve 9 and 10 playing on the wing and full back/center.

The Wallabies had every chance to win the game and blew it, England is the best team in the NH at the moment and will want this one more. If they win this they will remain undefeated in 2016 (13 wins) and could be up to 17 wins by the clash with Ireland in the final round of next years 6 nations.

 

[Scrubber2050]

England red hot favourites I reckon.

I hope Chek sticks with his group and starts all the same players.

Whilst I think some have been average, some poor, some just shouldn't be in the team Chek will do his thing. Hopefully Mumm gets off and plays. The Pooper to have a final crack. Moore's inspirational captaincy might get us over the line. Timani to sit in the stands again.

Our scrum with the lightweights will dominate the Soap Dodgers, let alone work ethic of Sio, Moore and Arnold around the park. Tight 5 looks good.

Izzy had an off day with his passing and a week of training will surely fix that.. Looking forward to some more tactical, critical and crucial box kicks and slick passing together with snipes from Willie G.

Fast Eddie has chucked the first hand grenade already but expect a lot more from our favourite ex pat. Am sure Chek will be able to adequately return fire and will win the media contest.

Penalty count probably will be 15 to 5 in our favour after Chek decides to speak with higher authority.

Actually, after drafting this post I feel more optimistic about the game and tip Australia to win by 22.

Go the Wallabies.

 

[PeterK]

This seems like such an easy go to position anytime we don't win when both start.

Most would have them amongst our best players against Ireland.

We gave away 13 penalties to 3 and conceded 19 turnovers to 10.

I'd put the problem at the feet of our poor discipline and accuracy with the ball, particularly when we had great attacking opportunities.

Ireland were fantastic in the first half hour and I'm not sure what selection changes would have made any difference to that period of time. We were beaten across the park.

We fought back strongly in the second half and gave ourselves more than enough opportunities to win the game and couldn't do it.

Timani would have cleared irish bodies off the ruck which Hooper can't do. Hooper missed 4 tackles the most by any player.
Timani helps to get over the ad line and would be harder to hold up in a choke tackle.
The backrow is more balanced.

Timani's size and strength was missed more than Hooper's fleet feet.

I never stated Pooper cost us the game it just made it harder on the wallabies by not playing Timani and Hooper on the bench.

 

[Twoilms]

PK, as has been pointed out numerous times Hooper is a key defender. He misses tackles because he pushes up out of the line and looks to compress their attack back inwards, often resulting in a missed tackle as its low percentage but still vital. he also chases kicks and breaks more than any other player which also results in a lot of low percentage tackle attempts.

If anything, based on last game, it's Pocock who should be dropped. Didn't pilfer that much ball, was easily outplayed at the breakdown by his Irish counterparts, tried but wasn't very affective at slowing Irish ball and was pinged for not supporting his weight (i think?). Offers less elsewhere than either Timani or Hooper.

Edit: i actually wouldn't mind a wallabies side that wasn't hopelessly devoted to pilfering ball (or trying to).

 

[wamberal]

From the snippets I saw of the Soapies playing the Argies, this could be a long night in the office. They looked scary with ball in hand, frankly.

 

[Tex]

Yep, Poms are looking pretty sharp at the moment. Their backline is playing with more confidence than I've seen in yonks, particularly the Ford and Farrell combo. Pace to burn at 13 and 14 are also concerns.