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End of Year Tour 2012

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daz

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Before the EOYT, I expressed concern that we might have a rankings issue come 1st December, for the RWC15 draw. That conversation is buried somewhere on these forums but I could not be arsed looking for it.

Numerous people said that we could not go lower than 4th and therefore we would retain top seed status for the groups.

It appears that was a faulty premise and we are actually in serious danger of dropping out of the top 4. We lose to the Poms and the French beat the Argies this weekend (which is pretty bloody likely) and it is hello #5.

If we drop to 5th, a small argument could be raised that Deans has taken us exactly nowhere in 5 years.

Suddenly the EOYT is becoming far more important than perhaps some of us realised.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
As long as I have followed Rugby I cannot re-call going as low as 5! I think 4 was our lowest point, but mostly always in the top 3.

Its ridiculous that Deans' Wallabies, after 4 years are playing worse then in his first year. No improvement at all. Pathetic.
 
No4918

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well, they did come 3rd in the World Cup that year........

The reason we dropped to 5th was due to our early exit in the World Cup.

Otherwise Australia was generally ranked around 2nd/3rd under Connolly too.

So we haven't gotten better under Deans.
 
Scotty

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Slim 293 said:
Well, they did come 3rd in the World Cup that year....

The reason we dropped to 5th was due to our early exit in the World Cup.

Otherwise Australia was generally ranked around 2nd/3rd under Connolly too.

So we haven't gotten better under Deans.
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And Connolly had only just over a year to get his side together, unlike Deans.
 
aeneas

aeneas

Tom Lawton (22)
Aside from the obvious eng v aus game, I think the match with the most potential to be awesome this week is fra v arg. I'd love the South Americans to beat France again. It would just confirm how good the TRC is.

sa v sco I suspect is going to be pretty one sided. I imagine the Scots used up most of their passion last week.
 
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LoneStar

Stan Wickham (3)
The match with the most potential IMO is Wales vs Samoa. I can sense an upset here.

I think it'll be another classic Wales vs Samoa game.
 
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Loki74

Ward Prentice (10)
daz said:
Before the EOYT, I expressed concern that we might have a rankings issue come 1st December, for the RWC15 draw. That conversation is buried somewhere on these forums but I could not be arsed looking for it.

Numerous people said that we could not go lower than 4th and therefore we would retain top seed status for the groups.

It appears that was a faulty premise and we are actually in serious danger of dropping out of the top 4. We lose to the Poms and the French beat the Argies this weekend (which is pretty bloody likely) and it is hello #5.

If we drop to 5th, a small argument could be raised that Deans has taken us exactly nowhere in 5 years.

Suddenly the EOYT is becoming far more important than perhaps some of us realised.
Click to expand...

It depends on how many we lose and by how much. You lose more ranking points if you lose by more than 15. So getting smashed by the French was a significant blip. Similarly, if England do a number on us we start to look pretty dodgy I suspect.
 
Scoey

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Loki74 said:
It depends on how many we lose and by how much. You lose more ranking points if you lose by more than 15. So getting smashed by the French was a significant blip. Similarly, if England do a number on us we start to look pretty dodgy I suspect.
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My God. It's starting to sound like we're playing the AB's again. "We can't beat them, so what we need to do is make sure they don't beat us by too much." (Not saying you're sayin it Loki, it's the vibe from all quarters!) We've sunken to a new low if our outfit EVER think like that against the Poms and it shits me to tears that we think like that even against the AB's!!! We need to start every game with the attitude that we will win if we execute well but sometimes I get the impression that they just don't have that belief.
 
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Loki74

Ward Prentice (10)
Scoey said:
My God. It's starting to sound like we're playing the AB's again. "We can't beat them, so what we need to do is make sure they don't beat us by too much." (Not saying you're sayin it Loki, it's the vibe from all quarters!) We've sunken to a new low if our outfit EVER think like that against the Poms and it shits me to tears that we think like that even against the AB's!!! We need to start every game with the attitude that we will win if we execute well but sometimes I get the impression that they just don't have that belief.
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I wasn't saying that would happen. I'll be watching and hoping for a win like always. Just pointing out that if we do get badly beaten, we will slide significantly down the rankings. The main characteristic of this current Wallabies team appears to be the yo-yo - good game, bad game, good game, bad game. So hopefully we are due for a good performance this week.

Personally, I was outraged by the comment from Deans and others about how the ABs are just playing too well etc. I actually think they are overrated (well at least to the extent people think they are unbeatable). They are a great team, but they they have been far more prone to errors than previously and seem to have lost a little grunt in the forward pack without Thorn. Draw in the Bledisloe was a dead rubber for them, but they clearly wanted to win. Just shows that with the right attitude and a bit of pressure they are still human.

I think you are right definitely right in questioning whether the Wallabies have the belief anymore. It is one of the reasons I like McCabe, even with the limitations in his play. At least he seems devastated every time we lose and plays on the basis that if he can just go hard enough, we will win. I think he might be better on the wing, where his limitations might not be such a liability.
 
Scoey

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Loki74 said:
I wasn't saying that would happen. I'll be watching and hoping for a win like always. Just pointing out that if we do get badly beaten, we will slide significantly down the rankings.
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Yeah sorry mate, I shouldn't have quoted you. I didn't think you were saying that either, just that when I read the bit in your post about getting smashed by the Poms I realised that not many of us probably feel like we can win this one and the best we can hope for is to be close. De ja vu from Bledisloe, game 2 time. Ugh! *shudders* ;) You're on the money.
 
Brumbieman

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Loki74 said:
I wasn't saying that would happen. I'll be watching and hoping for a win like always. Just pointing out that if we do get badly beaten, we will slide significantly down the rankings. The main characteristic of this current Wallabies team appears to be the yo-yo - good game, bad game, good game, bad game. So hopefully we are due for a good performance this week.

Personally, I was outraged by the comment from Deans and others about how the ABs are just playing too well etc. I actually think they are overrated (well at least to the extent people think they are unbeatable). They are a great team, but they they have been far more prone to errors than previously and seem to have lost a little grunt in the forward pack without Thorn. Draw in the Bledisloe was a dead rubber for them, but they clearly wanted to win. Just shows that with the right attitude and a bit of pressure they are still human.

I think you are right definitely right in questioning whether the Wallabies have the belief anymore. It is one of the reasons I like McCabe, even with the limitations in his play. At least he seems devastated every time we lose and plays on the basis that if he can just go hard enough, we will win. I think he might be better on the wing, where his limitations might not be such a liability.
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Last year, yes. This year's McCabe, i'd say that's a bit harsh. He was not at all a negative in attack for the Brumbies. They were, however, better coached, and playing with intent. MCCabe, like Fainga'a, both have decent enough ball skills. The number of inside unseen pop passes Fainga'a put Davies through holes last year was awesome. Yet playing under Deans, the whole backline just seems to be playing like they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing, and the skills these players possess at Super level suddenly seem to be deliberately discouraged in favour of these one out 'pass it to Digby and cue the massive goosestep and contact seeking running lines' tactics we're using.
 
L

Loki74

Ward Prentice (10)
Brumbieman said:
Last year, yes. This year's McCabe, i'd say that's a bit harsh. He was not at all a negative in attack for the Brumbies. They were, however, better coached, and playing with intent. MCCabe, like Fainga'a, both have decent enough ball skills. The number of inside unseen pop passes Fainga'a put Davies through holes last year was awesome. Yet playing under Deans, the whole backline just seems to be playing like they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing, and the skills these players possess at Super level suddenly seem to be deliberately discouraged in favour of these one out 'pass it to Digby and cue the massive goosestep and contact seeking running lines' tactics we're using.
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That is fair. It is amazing how pedestrian they look at Test level as compared to Super. Our attack at Test level just looks so one dimensional. One runner, telegraphed well in advance, defence lined up ready for them, no chance of support play and even then they somehow don't manage to get forwards there to support the player. If they do manage to make a break, they seem so surprised they inevitably try the miracle pass or chip kick, leading to the play breaking down. The few tries they have managed this year seemed all to be grinding, phase upon phase wear down of a defence with a crash over at the end. I would be so happy if they could just put a try on in the backs. Some form of subterfuge (running good lines, cut-out pass with dummy runner, multiple runners and short ball, backup play, something), put someone into a gap, support runners, draw and pass and score.
 
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