End of Year Tour 2012

[Sully]

I'm surprised Gill got a gig too. He's been solid while the other 2 have been exceptional.

 

[Braveheart81]

Backrow will continue to struggle I think.

I am gills biggest fan but 3 opensides in a squad of 30 seems like a bit much.

People talk about politicians making up policy on the run. Well deans is making up strategy on the run - last year he would only pick one open side in his 30 man squad but this year he has 3.

Last year the second best option was Hodgson or Beau Robinson.

Hooper and Gill have shown themselves to be head and shoulders above those two players in 2012.

 

[Sully]

Gill and pocock can both play 6 as well. Short blindsides but they can still play there.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Last year the second best option was Hodgson or Beau Robinson.

Hooper and Gill have shown themselves to be head and shoulders above those two players in 2012.

I think a lot of people don’t see the work that Matt Hodgeson does because he has been in Pococks shadow for so long. The reason Poey was able to do what he did at the Force was because of the work Hodgo did.

I think is unfair to say that the “best option was Hodgson or Beau Robinson” and imply that they weren’t up to it. Hodgeson is another player in a long line of players who has been mistreated by Deans and now he realises his mistakes and is over compensating now using 3 7'S.

There is no way 3 7’s should be in a squad of 30 and if it is deans plan to use one of them at 6/8 it just shows he has learnt nothing over the years trying to get everyone of his superstars on the field at once and play them all out of position.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think a lot of people don’t see the work that Matt Hodgeson does because he has been in Pococks shadow for so long. The reason Poey was able to do what he did at the Force was because of the work Hodgo did.

I think is unfair to say that the “best option was Hodgson or Beau Robinson” and imply that they weren’t up to it. Hodgeson is another player in a long line of players who has been mistreated by Deans and now he realises his mistakes and is over compensating now using 3 7'S.

There is no way 3 7’s should be in a squad of 30 and if it is deans plan to use one of them at 6/8 it just shows he has learnt nothing over the years trying to get everyone of his superstars on the field at once and play them all out of position.

I disagree. I've always been a big fan of Hodgson (I'm an Eastern Suburbs fan so I've seen him play a lot). He has had limited opportunities in test matches (I believe 6 tests with only the one ill-fated start against Samoa) but he has really struggled to impose himself in the test arena. I don't think you could say that Deans has mistreated him. What does that even mean? He's had a few chances and failed to grasp them. Now he has been passed by Hooper and Gill.

He's another player who performs very well at Super Rugby level but has failed to really make an impact at test level. Similar to someone like Adam Thomson (although not as dominant as Thomson at Super Rugby level).

I would suggest that the two reasons we are taking three 7s is because Pocock is returning from injury and Higginbotham has been suspended for half the tour. If Higginbotham had been available I'd guess that Gill would have missed out.

 

[Scoey]

On the need for a line out jumping 6/8, I was just reading an article that mentions the availability of MMM right at the end of it, as he is back from playing in Kubota. Obviously, the squad has been decided and it's been a while since probably most of us have seen him play but I always thought he could've been a great player if not for his chalky body.

 

[Scoey]

Here's the bit from the article:

An intriguing name back in the mix after three seasons with the Kubota club in Japan is 2007 World Cup lock-flanker Hugh McMeniman, who has been signed by the Western Force.
He has been back training in Australia for three months. Still just 28, he has the size and skills at 114kg to be a hugely valuable package for the Wallabies again down the track.

Here is the article:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...with-broken-hand/story-fn8t8ah6-1226502645697

Didn't know he had signed with the Force. Good on them - I think he will add a lot! Just wish we could've squeezed him back in at the Reds!

 

[Scarfman]

Backrow will continue to struggle I think.

I am gills biggest fan but 3 opensides in a squad of 30 seems like a bit much.

People talk about politicians making up policy on the run. Well deans is making up strategy on the run - last year he would only pick one open side in his 30 man squad but this year he has 3.

Deans is absolutely consistent. He picks who he sees as the best players, and then tries to find places for them.

Do I think this has contributed to our lack of cohesion and execution of game plan? Yes I do.

 

[Bowside]

Last year the second best option was Hodgson or Beau Robinson.

Hooper and Gill have shown themselves to be head and shoulders above those two players in 2012.

I would have taken both of them over Ben McCalman in the Ireland game.

The real mistake was they they couldn't sign george smith until the end of the world cup. Unbelievable really.

 

[kiap]

Gill and pocock can both play 6 as well. Short blindsides but they can still play there.

I am a fan of Gill but in no way should there be 3 x 7 in the 30. Really, neither him nor Pocock can play a test match at 6. I reckon Deans bringing on Gill contributed to 'losing' the win in the 3rd Bled.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I disagree. I've always been a big fan of Hodgson (I'm an Eastern Suburbs fan so I've seen him play a lot). He has had limited opportunities in test matches (I believe 6 tests with only the one ill-fated start against Samoa) but he has really struggled to impose himself in the test arena. I don't think you could say that Deans has mistreated him. What does that even mean? He's had a few chances and failed to grasp them. Now he has been passed by Hooper and Gill.

He's another player who performs very well at Super Rugby level but has failed to really make an impact at test level. Similar to someone like Adam Thomson (although not as dominant as Thomson at Super Rugby level).

I would suggest that the two reasons we are taking three 7s is because Pocock is returning from injury and Higginbotham has been suspended for half the tour. If Higginbotham had been available I'd guess that Gill would have missed out.

Prob wrong word more like Mishandled.

It just annoys me that some people say he and others have been shown they cant hack it at test level, after a couple of games.

He had 1 start in THAT game and 5 others off the bench much like Gill has, I would say he did more than Gill has in those games off the bench but people say he couldnt hack it. How many games have Horne, Ant, Slipper, Simmons, Saia and McCabe had to show that they can hack. The one game he did start and where there was a team on the field unlike the Samoa game he was MOM in the mid week game.

All I’m really saying is that he should have been in the squad last year and would have done the job Dean's fucked up and he knows it now and is over compensating.

It doesn’t mean anything now because Hooper is a freak and Hodgeson is injured but I just feel his form over the last few years should have seen him win a lot more caps.

 

[kiap]

I would have taken both of them over Ben McCalman in the Ireland game.

The real mistake was they they couldn't sign george smith until the end of the world cup. Unbelievable really.

They screwed George Smith.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Remember the time when we didn't have enough 7's........

 

[Braveheart81]

I would have taken both of them over Ben McCalman in the Ireland game.

Absolutely. Having a better 7 wouldn't have won us that game though. We got smashed.

I guess when we were picking a RWC squad that was limited in numbers, the gap from Pocock to the next best was considered so great that it was better picking another player who was closer to the matchday 22 than a reserve in case Pocock got injured. Obviously that backfired but I can see why it was done.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

BH, I think you're being too kind to Deans there. I was at that Ireland game and let me tell you that a lack of a back up openside has to go down as one of the worst coaching blunders I've ever seen. We got smashed at the breakdown. I know hindsight is 20/20 but every man and his dog was saying it was a mistake at the time.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH, I think you're being too kind to Deans there. I was at that Ireland game and let me tell you that a lack of a back up openside has to go down as one of the worst coaching blunders I've ever seen. We got smashed at the breakdown. I know hindsight is 20/20 but every man and his dog was saying it was a mistake at the time.

I absolutely agree that it was a mistake not to have a second one in the squad. I can see the reason why Hodgson or Beau Robinson weren't picked in the RWC squad though. Numbers were pretty tight and corners had to be cut somewhere. Neither of them screamed out for selection. If Pocock hadn't got injured it would have never been mentioned. A backup 7 might have had a run against USA or Russia but otherwise wouldn't have been anywhere near the matchday 22.

In hindsight you would definitely have left someone like Phipps at home and taken Hodgson.

 

[daz]

BH, I think you're being too kind to Deans there. I was at that Ireland game and let me tell you that a lack of a back up openside has to go down as one of the worst coaching blunders I've ever seen. We got smashed at the breakdown. I know hindsight is 20/20 but every man and his dog was saying it was a mistake at the time.

I hear what you are saying, Hornet. I agree that not having a specialist 7 named had most of us scratching our heads.

But I do agree with BH in that we could have had our preferred starting 15 in that game and it would not have made an iota of difference. We were on the back foot from the opening whistle and could not match the Irish aggression or adapt to their tactics.

It was a coaching failure, a strategic planning failure, and (in my opinion) a lack of rugby nous in the leadership group of the highest level.

It was the Irish game plan and lack of Wallaby plan B/smarts that did us in, not who wore the 7 jumper.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

In hindsight you would definitely have left someone like Phipps at home and taken Hodgson.

Yep, agreed.

I just thought that with openside being such a pivotal position, you'd take a backup. Ben Mac doesn't even play 7 for the Force, so I thought that was an unbelievable decision to throw him in in our most important pool game against a very worthy opposition.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I hear what you are saying, Hornet. I agree that not having a specialist 7 named had most of us scratching our heads.

But I do agree with BH in that we could have had our preferred starting 15 in that game and it would not have made an iota of difference. We were on the back foot from the opening whistle and could not match the Irish aggression or adapt to their tactics.

It was a coaching failure, a strategic planning failure, and (in my opinion) a lack of rugby nous in the leadership group of the highest level.

It was the Irish game plan and lack of Wallaby plan B/smarts that did us in, not who wore the 7 jumper.

No doubt and I agree with what you're saying, but witness the QF against the Boks. One of the key things that won us that game was having Pocock in the team. Had he not played, I believe we would have been slaughtered that day. The value of a good openside is just massive.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yep, agreed.

I just thought that with openside being such a pivotal position, you'd take a backup. Ben Mac doesn't even play 7 for the Force, so I thought that was an unbelievable decision to throw him in in our most important pool game against a very worthy opposition.

It was the only possible decision when Pocock wasn't fit though.

If you compare the Ireland game to the Samoa game where Australia also got smashed across the park, Hodgson didn't provide any real impact. Based on that, it's hard to argue that he would have made any real difference against Ireland. He's nowhere near the level of Pocock in being able to have such an incredible impact on a test match like Pocock did against South Africa.