ELV Debate - a good listen

[Lee Grant]

T78

- Yeah it was an IRB decision to leave the FK sanctions out - but how did the voting go, country by country? Who were the naysayers? I don't know, but we suspect that it was, in effect, a northern veto. [Does anybody have a link on the matter?]

- Last I heard, Oz and NZ were for the sanctions after the 2008 S14 and the RSA were equivocal. I think the SAfricans weren't too keen because they tend to react slower to law changes, and also tend to hold on to their historical strengths at all costs.

But during the 2008 S14 season you could notice that their teams were getting better and that they were realising that power rugby was still as relevant as ever. It just had to be tweaked for the ELVs. They weren't the only ones. In the 2nd half of the season the Waratahs stepped up in ELV rugby through the work done up front.

If the SAfricans come on board and SANZAR requests a dispensation from the IRB - as Oz did just after WWI, I think, to limit gaining ground from kicks out on the full from behind one's 25 yard line only, then I'm sure approval to use the FK sanctions will be granted.

Incidentally, after that dispensation given to Oz, the rest of the world followed suit, but because of opposition from the (England) Rugby Union, it took them 50 years to introduce it globally. During that time Oz played their domestic rugby under one set of laws and played tests under global laws.

But I digress. I hope that it doesn't take 50 years for the FK sanctions ELV to become global law. Others (yep, in the NH I feel) will have a different opinion, but I have to give mine.

 

[Thomond78]

The Scots and the French ratted on the bloc. As far as I remember it needs a two-thirds to get changes through; if the NH kept a lock-out, we could veto anything, as we've got ten votes to your six. :nta:

 

[Lee Grant]

That's not clear. Who voted to exclude the FK sanctions and who wanted them included?

 

[Thomond78]

That's not clear. Who voted to exclude the FK sanctions and who wanted them included?

I know for a fact that the Irish, Welsh and English voted against them. The French were supposed to vote against them, but Laplasset, who was head of the FFR at the time, over-ruled it and voted for the trial in question (under French law, he's allowed to do that). Even still, the Scots voting against would have been enough, but they voted for the limited trial.

 

[Lee Grant]

On that limited information the conspiracy theory that the NH officials vetoed the FK sanctions for global trial is not disproved.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Ok, well here is something right out of left field,
1: The NH do not like the ELV's
2: The 3N love the ELV's
3: By playing the ELV's the 3N have vastly improved over the main NH sides even while not playinr the ELV's on tour - ie: the ELV's improved our game

Even if the NH continued their obstinance at adopting the ELV's as we prefer them, would it be possible/feasible for us 3N to continue on our merry way, play club,regional, S14 and Tri nationions under the ELV's and then whenever we play internatinals against NH sides we revert to 'their' laws and still give them a spanking.

Really, as long as the rugby improves, spectators are happy and we beat England i don't care too much.

 

[RugbyReg]

Ok, well here is something right out of left field,
1: The NH do not like the ELV's
2: The 3N love the ELV's
3: By playing the ELV's the 3N have vastly improved over the main NH sides even while not playinr the ELV's on tour - ie: the ELV's improved our game

Even if the NH continued their obstinance at adopting the ELV's as we prefer them, would it be possible/feasible for us 3N to continue on our merry way, play club,regional, S14 and Tri nationions under the ELV's and then whenever we play internatinals against NH sides we revert to 'their' laws and still give them a spanking.

Really, as long as the rugby improves, spectators are happy and we beat England i don't care too much.

it just worries me that RWC finals are traditionally not won by free flowing running rugby type game plans.

 

[fatprop]

Ok, well here is something right out of left field,
1: The NH do not like the ELV's
2: The 3N love the ELV's
3: By playing the ELV's the 3N have vastly improved over the main NH sides even while not playinr the ELV's on tour - ie: the ELV's improved our game

Even if the NH continued their obstinance at adopting the ELV's as we prefer them, would it be possible/feasible for us 3N to continue on our merry way, play club,regional, S14 and Tri nationions under the ELV's and then whenever we play internatinals against NH sides we revert to 'their' laws and still give them a spanking.

Really, as long as the rugby improves, spectators are happy and we beat England i don't care too much.

it just worries me that RWC finals are traditionally not won by free flowing running rugby type game plans.

Most big finals aren't pretty.