Elsom - still playing wounded
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Scotty
David Codey (61)
Palu is definately better than Brown in the tight yards category, but then so are most of the Wallaby forwards. Brown is there to make the tackles and help secure posession but others have been doing that better as well.
Both have been less than average so far. IMO 6 & 8 along with 9 & 10 have been our weakest positions across the 3N so far. It will be impossible to win it if this doesn't turn around.
Both have been less than average so far. IMO 6 & 8 along with 9 & 10 have been our weakest positions across the 3N so far. It will be impossible to win it if this doesn't turn around.
It is troubling that there are no other big number 8s putting their hand up around Oz.
Brown so far seems to be another who looks great at S14, but average at Test level. He has zero impact with ball in hand mostly. I agree Palu has been hit and miss (seems to be the year-in, year-out assessment unfortunately) but I would still prefer Palu there, for what he does better. Just wish he did it more.
Or are we in Oz too used to the orthodoxy? I mean we seem to have set ideas on the mould for each position - 6 is your Elsom, Cockbain type of guy, 7 is Smith, Waugh, Wilson and 8 is a Palu, Kefu, Gavin. Or am I just wrong? :nta:
Whatever the case, I just don't agree with the multiple fetchers plan. When it starts to work consistently for us, I will happily stand corrected.
Brown so far seems to be another who looks great at S14, but average at Test level. He has zero impact with ball in hand mostly. I agree Palu has been hit and miss (seems to be the year-in, year-out assessment unfortunately) but I would still prefer Palu there, for what he does better. Just wish he did it more.
Or are we in Oz too used to the orthodoxy? I mean we seem to have set ideas on the mould for each position - 6 is your Elsom, Cockbain type of guy, 7 is Smith, Waugh, Wilson and 8 is a Palu, Kefu, Gavin. Or am I just wrong? :nta:
Whatever the case, I just don't agree with the multiple fetchers plan. When it starts to work consistently for us, I will happily stand corrected.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
cyclopath said:
It a balance that historically has worked and is working right now for South Africa, the best side in the world. Brussow is the fetcher, Smith the grafter, Spies the carrier.
If anything in the past we've been burned by cheating that system :
- Bob Dwyer's obsession with size in the loosies, eg: experimenting with Eales at 8, Garrick Morgan at 6, Daniel Manu at 7. I think our '95 RWC team loosies was something like Gavin, Manu and Willie O/Ilie Tabua. Our support play was lacking and the big men couldn't deliver for the full 80.
- Under Eddie Jones, with no legitimate 6, the dual opensides policy saw our pack decline at scrum, lineout and in overall physicality as we sacrificed grunt for the illusion of ruck dominance.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Scotty said:
Yeah, remember those back row moves that never worked ?
Still, I'd suggest that our biggest problem in '95 was most of our stars from '91 were carrying or recovering from injuries or simply past it. Timing has a lot to do with world cup success. It was a year too far for great servants like Rod McCall & Tony Daly didn't have anything left in the tank. And it was a year too soon for emerging stars like Matt Burke and George Gregan, who hadn't hit their straps at test level.
I remember us struggling against Romania in a pool game. After a rev up at halftime, Horan and Little finally started passing the ball to Joe Roff who had been unmarked the entire 1st half and surprise surprise, we started to carve up.
We didn't have the depth, and that's why we were so enthusiastic about this new ACT team in the Super rugby competition.
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
I think some players are just made for certain positions at test level even if the can cover other positions at Super Rugby.
For mine Dean Mumm, Peter Kimlin & Mark Jism are locks & should never play blindside same goes for Brown who is an openside/8.
Mowen & Higginbotham should both go on the spring tour as blindside back ups.
For mine Dean Mumm, Peter Kimlin & Mark Jism are locks & should never play blindside same goes for Brown who is an openside/8.
Mowen & Higginbotham should both go on the spring tour as blindside back ups.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
naza said:
Exactly right as was the other stuff. The Kiwis had the same problem in 1991. It will be interesting if the Boks can keep the rage alive in 2011 because as good as they are now compared to other international rivals, the All Blacks were better in 1989, yet they seemed to have depth then too.
disco said:
Mowen had an operation last week to repair anterior ligament damage and may not be fit to tour. He just tried to side step in a club game and his knee gave way.
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