Drew Mitchell - not suspended

[Top Bloke]

Yes, but do you agree if there was consistency from Joubert that Kaino should also have gotten a yellow? The incidences of slowing the quick tap happened thus:

ABs after a penalty - got marched 10m for doing so
ABs (Kaino)after getting marched 10m from above
Wallabies (Genia) after a penalty - got marched 10m (i think) and captains get the warning
Wallabies (Mitchell) at a lineout - yellow card

So the inconsistency is apparent that the ABs get away with the second incidence of slowing the ball down without a yellow card, marching 10m or even a warning. Yet as soon as the Australians slow the ball down there is a warning, and the next occurrence brings a yellow card. Now of course Mitchell shouldn't have done this after the warning, but I fail to see how Joubert treated both sides in the same manner. It is reminiscent of the issues we had with him in the scrums in Auckland last year, where only one team was refereed.

But the biggest issue with his performance was the lack of warning on the ABs for deliberately infringing at the breakdown in the red zone. 7 penalties is a lot to concede in this area without a single warning and without doubt this stunted the wallabies attack.

Scotty - not sure where you get 7 pens at the breakdown in the Redzone?

Stats from SA Referees site: Tackle/ruck/maul: 5 (Owen Franks*, McCaw 2, Nonu, Mealamu) - not all in the redzone either.
there were another 3 pens for offsides - (probably all in their own 22)

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Botha.

Why do u think the cc didn't even look at the incident?

 

[Top Bloke]

The Horizontal part has been removed. Please try and keep up. Out of all the the suspensions this year the only old style "spear tackle" was De Villiers in the first ABs game and even that was soft. IMO none of the "Lifting tackle" deserved a yellow let alone a suspension. Lets go back to the past the horizontal plane test to determine a dangerous tackle. The way they are ruling this if you get a dominant tackle and drive the player back off their feet all the tacklee has to do is twist their body and land sideways to milk the penalty. Chav ball anyone?

From the SA Referees website - this link explains "Tip tackle" and what the sanctions are:

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2551420.htm

 

[Scotty]

Scotty - not sure where you get 7 pens at the breakdown in the Redzone?

Stats from SA Referees site: Tackle/ruck/maul: 5 (Owen Franks*, McCaw 2, Nonu, Mealamu) - not all in the redzone either.
there were another 3 pens for offsides - (probably all in their own 22)

The stats I saw for total penalties are 12 ABs, 7 Aussies. The '7 in redzone' came from an article (which I think I posted or linked earlier). I haven't (and won't be) counted myself.

 

[TheRiddler]

From the SA Referees website - this link explains "Tip tackle" and what the sanctions are:

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2551420.htm

Interesting article TB. It says the IRB instructions to refs on analysing the seriousness of an offence are to start with the possibility of a red card and then move down in seriousness. Would perhaps seem a little strange that the IRBs first instinct is to reduce the number of players on the field.

Also found it interesting that the citings and suspensions are said to be used when the on-field punishment is not deemed to be seriousness enough. The examples given are that the three suspensions given so far in the tri-nations for the lifting offence should have actually been dealt with by a red card at the time. That obviously takes into account the comments in the paragraph above. That doesnt seem right to me. I agree that if a player is lifted in a tackle and deliberately speared/driven into the ground in a spiteful/malicious/feral manner then they deserve to be sent off and have a long holiday. However, if it is simply the case of bad timing and the player is able to safely come to ground (IIRC all the tackled players were able to use their hands/arms to dampen the fall) then I dont think red cards brandished at will will solve anything and just be a further blight on our delightful game.

 

[Top Bloke]

.....
However, if it is simply the case of bad timing and the player is able to safely come to ground (IIRC all the tackled players were able to use their hands/arms to dampen the fall) then I dont think red cards brandished at will will solve anything and just be a further blight on our delightful game.

The instruction to start at Red and work down is clearly indicative of the IRBs intention to try and remove any from of dangerous play from the game. The responsibility is placed on the players. If they "accidentally" effect a tip tackle then they better make sure they dont, either drive the player into the ground or let the player fall - result = Red Card, but If they control the tackled players descent then it would seem the worst would be a YC.

 

[Gagger]

Botha.

Why do u think the cc didn't even look at the incident?

Fucked if I know, but the inconsistency gives me the shits. Our first choice 10 is twiddling his thumbs for two Bleds. Here, nothing.

As Riddler quoted above, the bans are if you didn't get pinged enough on field. The fact they wanted to, but couldn't find the right player to ping would surely initiate the process within which the severity or lack of gets discussed.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Fucked if I know, but the inconsistency gives me the shits. Our first choice 10 is twiddling his thumbs for two Bleds. Here, nothing.

As Riddler quoted above, the bans are if you didn't get pinged enough on field. The fact they wanted to, but couldn't find the right player to ping would surely initiate the process within which the severity or lack of gets discussed.

There is no inconsistency. Coopers tackle was far worse than the AB one. The angle of the head shoulders was into the turf for Cooper & the other, it wasn't - hence the ban (not one I agree with, mind, but that's not the issue). If the citing commisioner, viewing the tape at the end of the match thought either McCaw or Whitelock needed to be cited and possibly banned, he would have. Botha had no action on the field at all, and was cited afterwards. Get it now?

The accusations here are getting seriously ridiculous. You don't even have any proof that it wasn't looked at & your inconsistency is completely inaccurate.

 

[fatprop]

Mitchell sin-binning wrong, IRB admits
August 4, 2010 - 4:00PM

Drew Mitchell of the Wallabies is sent off after a second yellow card in the Bledisloe Cup opener. Mitchell was controversley sin binned in the first-half following a touch judge's report on a late tackle.

Drew Mitchell of the Wallabies is sent off after a second yellow card in the Bledisloe Cup opener. Mitchell was controversially sin-binned in the first half following a touch judge's report on a late tackle.

South African Cobus Wessels has been stood down as an assistant referee for Saturday's rugby Tri Nations Test between the All Blacks and Australia, officials said today.

The decision to replace Wessels followed a review of his performance when the teams clashed in Melbourne last Saturday, the International Rugby Board (IRB) said in a statement.

IRB referees boss Paddy O’Brien admitted that the decision to sin-bin Drew Mitchell for a late tackle on Richie McCaw was incorrect.

Wessels had made the recommendation to match referee Craig Joubert in the first half although television footage later showed the decision to be a mistake.

"If anything, it's lucky to be a penalty," O’Brien said.

"McCaw offloads as he's about to collide with Drew Mitchell, who puts his hands out and pushes him away. So there’s no way it’s a yellow card offence.

"As a result of that, with the second yellow, Australia went without a player for 30 minutes and that just shouldn’t have happened."

"Cobus has been very understanding, he admits that he got it wrong and we’re not going to hang him out to dry. He’s got to go away and think about that, referee the Currie Cup and hopefully learn a lesson from it," O'Brien said.

Mitchell went on to be shown a second yellow card for slowing down play after half-time, resulting in an automatic sending off, which cost Australia sorely in defence. The All Blacks went on to win 49-28.

New Zealander Keith Brown replaces Wessels in Christchurch but the selection of a non-neutral would not be a precedent for future Tests and was for logistical reasons, the IRB said.

Agencies

 

[Scotty]

Justice 4 Drew

 

[barbarian]

A bit much for Paddy to come out and publicly bag the touchie for that. He says he doesn't want to publicly hang him out to dry, but in reality he has. We all know why the guy was dropped without him explaining it. Paddy seems to pick and choose the times he backs his ref's poor cals to the hilt, and the times he jumps all over them in the media.

 

[Gnostic]

A bit much for Paddy to come out and publicly bag the touchie for that. He says he doesn't want to publicly hang him out to dry, but in reality he has. We all know why the guy was dropped without him explaining it. Paddy seems to pick and choose the times he backs his ref's poor cals to the hilt, and the times he jumps all over them in the media.

Add to that his total lack of action on the ABs illegal tactics with offisde players at the rucks which has been well discussed here.

 

[Gnostic]

Law 10.4 (j): Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Looking at this the only tackle that would constitute an illegality under this law from the suspensions we have seen this year I would say was JdV's. I still think that the others were very soft but they have been totally consistent.

 

[RugbyReg]

interesting pick up there with the bolded bits!

 

[chief]

I think Paddy should shut up. I think the demotion from him from next weeks game won't do anything. I think a better idea would be having a whole new set of refs for the next weeks game, the real consequences should be done in private.

 

[Brumby Jack]

A bit much for Paddy to come out and publicly bag the touchie for that.

Then read....

.'Cobus Wessels (South Africa) has been replaced by Keith Brown (New Zealand) as Assistant Referee for the top of the table clash in Christchurch.
Wessels, who will now perform the role of Television Match Official, has been stood down as Assistant Referee 2 following a routine review of match official performance in last weekend’s Tri-Nations match in Melbourne.'

 

[chief]

Then read....

"Cobus has been very understanding, he admits that he got it wrong and we’re not going to hang him out to dry. He’s got to go away and think about that, referee the Currie Cup and hopefully learn a lesson from it," O'Brien said.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Add to that his total lack of action on the ABs illegal tactics with offisde players at the rucks which has been well discussed here.

Yes - Paddy should direct his IRB rulings on the collective view of the G & GR community, because there's no bias in there whatsoever...

SEriously Gnostic, if you focused as much on your own teams indiscretions, as you choose to focus on the opposition, I imagine you'd be quite shocked. The Aussies were into the rucks from the side all day on the weekend.

 

[barbarian]

Yes - Paddy should direct his IRB rulings on the collective view of the G & GR community, because there's no bias in there whatsoever...

SEriously Gnostic, if you focused as much on your own teams indiscretions, as you choose to focus on the opposition, I imagine you'd be quite shocked. The Aussies were into the rucks from the side all day on the weekend.

Not sure if we were in from the side all day, but am certainly sick of the bleating about the AB's tactics. They may be at times dubious, but they are not continuous and deliberate lke some are making out. Can we give it a rest for just a few days?

 

[Groucho]

This from Paddy:

IRB boss says Drew Mitchell should not have been sent off in Bledisloe Cup

Wallabies winger Drew Mitchell should not have been sent off in Saturday night's Bledisloe Cup loss to New Zealand, IRB referees boss Paddy O'Brien has confirmed.

Mitchell was dismissed for the first time in his Test career when he received a second yellow card for deliberately knocking the ball down, handing the All Blacks a decisive advantage from which they went on to dismantle the Wallabies 49-28.

But O'Brien said Mitchell's first yellow card, awarded for what South African touch judge Cobus Wessels described as a "late and dangerous tackle", should not have been awarded.

Mitchell was cleared of suspension by SANZAR; and Wessels has subsequently been stood down from Saturday night's return Test in Christchurch, with O'Brien hoping the touch judge will learn from two incorrect decisions.

"If anything, it's (Mitchell's first yellow card) lucky to be a penalty,'' O'Brien said.

"McCaw offloads as he's about to collide with Drew Mitchell, who puts his hands out and pushes him away. So there's no way it's a yellow-card offence.

"As a result of that, with the second yellow, Australia went without a player for 30 minutes and that just shouldn't have happened.''

"Assistant referees, we encourage them to intervene in the game but they've got to get it right. There were two decisions made which we felt weren't up to the standard required.

"Cobus has been very understanding, he admits that he got it wrong and we're not going to hang him out to dry. He's got to go away and think about that, referee the Currie Cup and hopefully learn a lesson from it.''

Wessels has been demoted to be the television match official in Saturday's Test, replaced by New Zealander Keith Brown.

O'Brien said the IRB made no apologies for Mitchell's dismissal but he also admitted the match officials had overstepped the mark.

"We're very tough on dangerous tackles, especially tip tackles,'' he said.

"This is the shop window of rugby so we can't have third grade players running around in club rugby tipping someone in the air and putting them down with legs above the horizontal.

"And there's no excuses for the headbutting and the other things that have happened.''

"There are concerns that there have been a couple of yellows where the referees have been over-zealous. The game is still a contact sport so we just want the referees to be accurate when it comes to what is foul play and what is hard rugby."