Draft for Oz S15?

[AussieDominance]

All I can say it needs a lot of work. What reward do states like NSW & QLD get when they produce the majority of these juniors & yet get them pilfered by other states in NSW's case the Brumbies mainly & in QLD's case the Force.

This could possibly lead to the weaker junior development states not giving wholehearted effort to producing local juniors( I mean the Brumbies have already been given a leg up by taking over a part of the NSW development system).

ACT Schools have been nothing but poor over the last few years is that the Premier states fault? Of course Fagan would describe it as a 'solid concept'.

Im all for a development system that still requires the weaker junior development franchises(Brumbies, Force & Melbourne) to actually put some effort in.

There were 7 players on the pitch from ONE school in Canberra in the Reds V Brumbies game. Stop talking shit. The Brumbies also represent Southern NSW but you keep ignoring that.

I keep ignoring what? In my above quoted post I clearly stated ' I mean the Brumbies have already been given a leg up by taking over a part of the NSW development system'

Should I call it the Brumbies or should I call it Randwick/Southern Districts?

 

[Biffo]

How mnay players from "Southern NSW" are on the Brumbies' books?

 

[cyclopath]

How mnay players from "Southern NSW" are on the Brumbies' books?

Well if you include those that have driven through or flown over Southern NSW at some time...
Waiting for that map showing Brumbies territory, and the Gregan line across the State south of Orange to get another airing. I know plenty in that zone who aren't Brumbies fans, but apparently they're supposed to be.

 

[Moses]

Yeh, when QLD produces 99% of all Super rugby players in Australia and the Wallabies, it's hardly fair for the future of the Reds.

At the risk of letting some facts cloud your judgement, here's a piece Noddy wrote on the subject.

20 / 121 is not very close to 99%

Great work by Noddy, great work.

There is no single reliable measure of "who belongs to whom", because that concept is a nonsense in the context of a professional sport in a nation dominated by immigrants.

I think Reddy is more focused on where players were schooled and developed their game. Noddy's article was focused on where players were born.

You are correct, if only we had a list of where players were schooled I have every confidence that 119 out of the 122 would have been schooled in Queensland.

 

[Moses]

How mnay players from "Southern NSW" are on the Brumbies' books?

Well if you include those that have driven through or flown over Southern NSW at some time...
Waiting for that map showing Brumbies territory, and the Gregan line across the State south of Orange to get another airing. I know plenty in that zone who aren't Brumbies fans, but apparently they're supposed to be.

Too right Cyclo, whose bright idea was it to let the Brumbies just claim half the state without so much as a civil war? I say we take back what's ours. New map of Brumbies Territory is attached.

 

[Langthorne]

:lmao: that is gold Moses

If I could diverge from the 'we produce all the talent' line...I would prefer to see the development of local talent, bringing in unaffiliated grade players, or the loaning of junior academy players as the options explored ahead of this 'draft' (daft) idea (and I don't think draft is the right way to describe it if after they are drafted the players are available to all franchises).

 

[Spook]

All I can say it needs a lot of work. What reward do states like NSW & QLD get when they produce the majority of these juniors & yet get them pilfered by other states in NSW's case the Brumbies mainly & in QLD's case the Force.

This could possibly lead to the weaker junior development states not giving wholehearted effort to producing local juniors( I mean the Brumbies have already been given a leg up by taking over a part of the NSW development system).

ACT Schools have been nothing but poor over the last few years is that the Premier states fault? Of course Fagan would describe it as a 'solid concept'.

Im all for a development system that still requires the weaker junior development franchises(Brumbies, Force & Melbourne) to actually put some effort in.

There were 7 players on the pitch from ONE school in Canberra in the Reds V Brumbies game. Stop talking shit. The Brumbies also represent Southern NSW but you keep ignoring that.

I keep ignoring what? In my above quoted post I clearly stated ' I mean the Brumbies have already been given a leg up by taking over a part of the NSW development system'

Should I call it the Brumbies or should I call it Randwick/Southern Districts?

A leg up? :lmao: It's more a case of giving these regions a hand because they were being ignored in Sydney. That actually helps rugby in Australia. A previously ignored and unwanted group of players now has access to a professional environment and new competitions. Simple really.

Your talk about "what do NSW and QLD gets" amounts to a whinge. For a start, they get the most representation on the ARU board. In any event, the only compensation that needs to be handed out is in the form of payments to the players - that's called a salary. The Tahs keep taking on league players and ignoring the talent they have. That's a Tah problem, and is nothing to do with other states. QLD lost players to other states because they were a basket case for a long time.

I find it funny when NSW fans cry about lost players they didn't want ignoring the fact they if they'd hung around the Tahs, they wouldn't have played at all. :

 

[Spook]

know plenty in that zone who aren't Brumbies fans, but apparently they're supposed to be.

:lmao: I know people in Ireland that support the Brumbies.

 

[cyclopath]

know plenty in that zone who aren't Brumbies fans, but apparently they're supposed to be.

:lmao: I know people in Ireland that support the Brumbies.

So do I, but I try to ignore that!.
Of course all that volcanic ash starves everything of oxygen a bit...

 

[Bruce Ross]

It would kind of suck being a young player and suddenly being shafted over to Perth for a season with all your family and friends in Sydney... but then again plenty of young people have to travel for work, many enjoy the change.

An important issue ignored by this proposal is that a large proportion of those emerging players would be interrupting some form of tertiary study.

 

[James Buchanan]

An important issue ignored by this proposal is that a large proportion of those emerging players would be interrupting some form of tertiary study.

At the same time Bruce, there are very good institutions available in all of the prospective Super 15 license locations.

Transfers could be arranged. The only real location that could prove an issue would be ACT as while ANU is very very good, the drop after that (afaik) is quite steep.

 

[Lindommer]

There were 7 players on the pitch from ONE school in Canberra in the Reds v Brumbies game.

To have seven Eddie's players on the pitch isn't a good thing, Spook. I'd be much happier if the strongest Canberra school, or junior club, had three or four at the most because every school/jc in Canberra strived to excel in rugby. I'd warrant no AFL side has more than two or three players from the same school playing at the same time. To me this indicates the depth of competition in the code.

 

[Biffo]

There were 7 players on the pitch from ONE school in Canberra in the Reds v Brumbies game.

To have seven Eddie's players on the pitch isn't a good thing, Spook. I'd be much happier if the strongest Canberra school, or junior club, had three or four at the most because every school/jc in Canberra strived to excel in rugby. I'd warrant no AFL side has more than two or three players from the same school playing at the same time. To me this indicates the depth of competition in the code.

I totally agree. Seven players from one school suggests that the Brumbies are doing very little to spread rugby throughout the ACT, Queanbeyan and "Southern NSW". If they are doing something, it clearly isn't working.

 

[Bruce Ross]

An important issue ignored by this proposal is that a large proportion of those emerging players would be interrupting some form of tertiary study.

At the same time Bruce, there are very good institutions available in all of the prospective Super 15 license locations.

Transfers could be arranged. The only real location that could prove an issue would be ACT as while ANU is very very good, the drop after that (afaik) is quite steep.

The problem, James, is that we are looking at short term relocation during a term or semester. It is very different if the players were transferred for the whole of the Super 15 competition, but as I read it this is not what is likely to occur.

 

[Lindommer]

An important issue ignored by this proposal is that a large proportion of those emerging players would be interrupting some form of tertiary study.

Bruce, there are excellent avenues available for students to complete their courses by distance education. Isn't TPN doing some peculiar IT degree through Swinburne in Melbourne? If players decide not to move to take up an offer to play professional rugby due to personal study requirements, more fool them. As JB pointed out there are other tertiary institutions all over Australia, if a bloke's committed to complete his chosen course he'll find a way.

My wife and I met at The University of Sydney as students and our son now attends that august institution, but not everyone has to pass through its hallowed halls to advance in life. In my chosen field, wine, the majority of small winemakers in Australia get their degree from Charles Sturt University at Wagga Wagga via a mixture of distance coursework and residential workshops in quiet times.

A talented young bloke has to make a decision about his future, one of many, but he'd be well advised to explore all avenues for tertiary education before turning down a contract.

 

[James Buchanan]

Bruce makes a fair point Lindo,

If they're being transferred mid semester, the ability to do coursework externally or the like is significantly limited.

The draft part of the idea works okay, if kids are being moved around between franchises on a more permanent basis they can organise alternative study arrangements. The pool bit might cause something of a problem.

That being said, it might be a case of simply negotiating a solution with their lecturers or deferring a semester (which should be reasonably available before census date given the early start to the season).

 

[farva]

There was in interesting post on twf about player poaching. It listed the money provided by the ARU to develop these players, and basically, Qld and NSW were getting the lions share (because they had the most players) so in the end, the ARU are developing these players, not the unions. So there is no real poaching.

 

[fatprop]

:nta:

A kid gets the chance to be a pro rugby player would be concerned because his studies are mucked up?

What planet is this kid from?

 

[Biffo]

:nta:

A kid gets the chance to be a pro rugby player would be concerned because his studies are mucked up?

What planet is this kid from?

Smack on, FP. Wish I had a choice between being a brain surgeon and a professional rugby player. Moreover, they don't have to make an "either or" choice. John Roe got to be a doctor, as will Stephen Moore. Joe Roff and others benefitted nicely from the excellent ARU "post-rugby" scholarship program. The Australian tertiary institutions have been generally very flexible to accommodate the needs of sportsmen.

I notice that many Reds players are doing tertiary courses related to property management. None would suffer from a transfer to another state. Come to think of it, they might be offered scholarships as part of the lure. No, I am not suggesting that anyone offer Quade Cooper a property management course.

 

[topo]

:nta:

A kid gets the chance to be a pro rugby player would be concerned because his studies are mucked up?

What planet is this kid from?

You're right FP. I know some kids (from Bruce's fine institution) who will do (have done) whatever it takes to be a pro rugby player, and the studies just get put on hold for a while. I'm sure Mitch Inman, Ben McAlman and Nathan Charles don't regret heading over west for a semester (although poor Jono Jenkins might).