Did Joubert feel the pressure?

[fatprop]

I don't think it is going to give anymore insight (if it has any at all)

 

[Sully]

Self moderating! I like it.

 

[Scarfman]

And another thing about Richie McCaw is ...

 

[Blue]

Picking examples to make your point is fine, but if you ignore evidence that doesn't support it, you're essentially lying.

And I'd like to hear your analysis of the Kaino example.

Here's mine.

- He's a tackle assist and doesn't really release the tackled player - sure. It could be a penalty, but that's barely been enforced the whole tournament.

That's where you lost me, so I stopped reading your post. The law is the law, whether it was properly interpreted one minute ago or not.

If you can't see that Kaino was transgressing, all I can say is thank far you're not a ref.

Nothing personal of course

I think Joubert go that wrong, but on the whole he gets more right than most refs so we should accept it.

 

[Blue]

I loved Phil Kearn's comment when Mccaw got up from one of the rucks with blood all over his face " He deserves every bit of that, hes been lieing all over the rucks all night" lol

If I ate a biscuit every time Kearns cried about McCaw over the lest number of years I'd be a fat fuck.

 

[Bullrush]

If I ate a biscuit every time Kearns cried about McCaw over the lest number of years I'd be a fat fuck.

LMAO.....shit....you'd be well on the way if you had just started on the final....

 

[Athilnaur]

If I ate a biscuit every time Kearns cried about McCaw over the lest number of years I'd be a fat fuck.

A bigpu?

 

[Drexl]

It was a rather good performance from Joubert. Yet their must have been huge pressure not to be the cause of the ABs choking again. I didn't envy him at all.

Thoughts? I hope this thread doesn't detract from the ABs win.

It is Widely accepted by international observers that Craig Joubert has gifted the RWC2011 final to New Zealand by failing to penalize the All Blacks.


The Guardian: "...few free gifts from a referee who spent the first half infuriating even neutrals by giving virtually every decision to the men in black..."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/oct/23/rugby-world-cup-final-france

Setanta RWC2011 final refereeing post match analysis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo

Irish Times: "Joubert’s reluctance to make the hard calls facilitated New Zealand’s victory on a night when they were second best to France"
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1025/1224306445492.html

Scotsman: "Williams slams performance of World Cup ref Joubert"
"The World Cup was decided on non-refereeing decisions. It has got to be fair for both sides."

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...erformance_of_world_cup_ref_joubert_1_1933573

RWC2011 final: After play had been allowed to continue for nearly two minutes while the outhalf Morgan Parra was receiving treatment for a head injury by McCaw of New Zealand, Joubert called a halt while Aaron Cruden received lengthy treatment after twisting a knee.

RWC2011 final: Many of the penalties for France were in their half, Joubert seemed to have ignored ones in kickable places

* This is London, Jason Cowley: "South African Craig Joubert seemed to me to favour the home side in most of the marginal decisions"
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ll-blacks-emerge-from-the-trenches-smiling.do

* Irish Independent: "Craig Joubert did not referee evenly and it was the home side that benefited -- some of the decisions were disgraceful for a game of this magnitude."
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...lly-a-final-word-from-down-under-2914704.html


Australia - Sydney Morning Herald - 12th minutes into the game - Live coverage: "New Zealand are getting away with a few here. McCaw is all over the ball off his feet in the breakdown, and they are sneaking offside on the fringes. Joubert needs to have a word to keep this a fair contest."
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...nd-v-france-20111023-1me9g.html#ixzz1cjPPh5hA

 

[Scarfman]

Welcome Drexl,

A bit controversial in your first post, mate. But no-one can say you didn't do your research.

I think the consensus on G&GR is that Joubert let things go too much, and yes, it probably favoured the ABs, but shit happens.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Actually I just re-watched the French win over England. They are a quality side. I didn't realize it on first viewing because I thought England was crap, and France were lucky to get into the finals at all.

 

[Drexl]

Thanks Scarfman.

New Zealand fans will probably dislike me to say the least, but I'm not after them.

I cannot accept Joubert will get away with this.

I can live with France losing to the All Blacks in a Rugby World Cup final, but Joubert's performance is un acceptable.

Welcome Drexl,

A bit controversial in your first post, mate. But no-one can say you didn't do your research.

I think the consensus on G&GR is that Joubert let things go too much, and yes, it probably favoured the ABs, but shit happens.

 

[Schadenfreude]

There weren't many better options for referee though were there?

Though I thought the bronze final was refereed well, and the France / England game. The general standard of refereeing was very poor for the whole tournament.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Thanks Scarfman.

New Zealand fans will probably dislike me to say the least, but I'm not after them.

I cannot accept Joubert will get away with this.

I can live with France losing to the All Blacks in a Rugby World Cup final, but Joubert's performance is un acceptable.

Nothing against you personally, but how did you feel when Barnes shafted the AB's in 2007?
Or when Lawrence shafted the Boks in this tournament?

Reading the journo's who reinforce your point (and being based in Ireland, I can't blame you for that - your media has had an obsession with bashing all things NZ rugby since BOD gate), is only going to make you more pissed off. Joubert ref'd the game the same way he always ref's it. It's discussed, dissected plenty of times throughout this thread. He always lets things go more in the breakdown, he could penalised the French alot more too - but funnily enough that seems to have been forgotten.

It just seems that those who were absolutely gagging to watch us choke again, are now finding all sorts of ways to prove that we did. A coupe of your links mention Stephen Donalds penalty kick missing. Which it didn't, and a very quick basic youtube search proves it (or watching a replay of the game). How can these guys be taken seriously with such poor research into their journalism?

As far as I'm concerned, Joubert was fine. He wasn't biased, he let the game go, he missed a couple of things against both sides (eye gouge gate FFS, French shoud have been down to 14 in last 10 mins) & he did his best. All calls for him to suffer retribution are poor form in my opinion.

And you know what... the same journo's who are crying about this now, didn't seem to have a problem with Barnes-gate in 2007 when he single handedly handed the game to the French. So as far as I'm concerned, we were owed one anyway.

EDIT: Oh and thanks for posting something worth replying to... I've been bored shitless since the WC finished.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Thanks Scarfman.

New Zealand fans will probably dislike me to say the least, but I'm not after them.

I cannot accept Joubert will get away with this.

I can live with France losing to the All Blacks in a Rugby World Cup final, but Joubert's performance is un acceptable.

Get away with what? Not impressing a bunch of moronic journalists working for the the mainstream media?

If NZ lost by 1 point, they'd be blaming the ref for stuff he didn't pick France off for doing. They are professional whingers/sooks and I wouldn't be too quick to use them as a source for my viewpoint.

If you think refereeing standards are so bad, pick up the whistle yourself. Maybe you can ref the next world cup final and all the journalists can finally have a non-bias referee to praise once and for all! We will all live happily ever after and world peace will be solved. Or something like that...

 

[PaarlBok]

Vok it must be depressing banging the ref all the time. What about if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Its fucking tiredsome and depressing. France was fucking lucky making the finals for a starter, lost by a fat fucking lot in the pool stage and dont really deserved that final spot. now fucking get over it and get on with it. The WC is done and dusted and past tense, vokken history!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There weren't many better options for referee though were there?

Though I thought the bronze final was refereed well, and the France / England game. The general standard of refereeing was very poor for the whole tournament.

Correct,
I think the answer lies in adopting some more adventurous ways to police the game
ARs need to more adventurous (and better, it's true) they need to see themselves as looking for the thing a ref can't see because he's too close to the action and not be afraid to call it.
They need to use the vid ref more, but do it quickly.
How about a downed by contact type rule: you don't have to be held you just have to be knocked to one or both knees. No need for tackler to hold on as player with ball cannot regain his feet. This would encourage tackler to let go earlier and would make infringement by him easier to police.

 

[Drexl]

Nothing against you personally, but how did you feel when Barnes shafted the AB's in 2007?
Or when Lawrence shafted the Boks in this tournament?

That was a different issue: in 2007 it was an error. A single error from a ref who must have regretted not seeing it. Unfortunate for the All Blacks.
Now, RWC2011 final, as it happened, Joubert deliberately influenced the whole game by not refereeing the 2 teams the same way. I have watched the match more than once.

Reading the journo's who reinforce your point (and being based in Ireland, I can't blame you for that - your media has had an obsession with bashing all things NZ rugby since BOD gate), is only going to make you more pissed off.

I disagree with this. In all fairness they are not pro-French and I could also post links to the disgusting French bashing that occurred before the final. And the bookies refunding the bets on New Zealand to win over France the day before the match..
I have not seen New Zealand bashing in Ireland. They are fairly neutral.

Joubert ref'd the game the same way he always ref's it. It's discussed, dissected plenty of times throughout this thread. He always lets things go more in the breakdown, he could penalised the French alot more too - but funnily enough that seems to have been forgotten.
...
As far as I'm concerned, Joubert was fine. He wasn't biased, he let the game go, he missed a couple of things against both sides (eye gouge gate FFS, French shoud have been down to 14 in last 10 mins) & he did his best. All calls for him to suffer retribution are poor form in my opinion.

Joubert did not referee both sides evenly. So it is not a case of the French were not used to this type of refereeing and they got surprised, but rather it is a case of being cheated by a referee otherwise competent.

Letting the game go for 2mn when Morgan Parra was down is one example out of many. (He stopped the game straight away when cruden was down)

EDIT: Oh and thanks for posting something worth replying to... I've been bored shitless since the WC finished.

You're welcome!

 

[Drexl]

Get away with what? Not impressing a bunch of moronic journalists working for the the mainstream media?

Getting away with not refereeing both teams evenly. I have seen the match more than once and if your team would have been deliberately penalized by a refree in this manner you'd be mad.

It goes far beyond this. I think International Rugby is dead. How can you watch a RWC when you know a guy like Joubert can do whatever he feels like doing. And why not he has been rewarded by being appointed to ref the 6 Nations (a match with France, how insulting from IRB and Joubert)

If you think refereeing standards are so bad, pick up the whistle yourself. Maybe you can ref the next world cup final and all the journalists can finally have a non-bias referee to praise once and for all! We will all live happily ever after and world peace will be solved. Or something like that...

Just to be clear: I do not think Joubert is a bad referee, I think he is a cheat. This is more serious. Some refs are not good or not in form, that is not his case.

To your point 'pick up the whistle' I'd say.. What do you mean? if you have to be a ref to watch a game or comment on it then what the heck are we all doing here?

 

[Drexl]

Vok it must be depressing banging the ref all the time. What about if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I'm sorry for your aunt

Its fucking tiredsome and depressing. France was fucking lucky making the finals for a starter, lost by a fat fucking lot in the pool stage and dont really deserved that final spot. Vok it must be depressing banging the ref all the time. What about if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

This is off topic and arrogant. If you know anything about this type of tournament you'd know that it is all about gaining form as you progress. How good is it to have a good team that wins all matches in pool and then disappear in 1/4?
If you want to play the 'deserve' card then don't watch RWC. Instead I suggest X Factor (most popular wins) or figure skating for the team that looks the prettiest and get the more points.

As I see it, France did not cheat and thus deserved to be in the final.
If a tournament has to be decided on if the team deserves it or not then why would France bother turn up and giving a good show to everyone.

now fucking get over it and get on with it. The WC is done and dusted and past tense, vokken history!

If you are not interested in a discussion then don't post.
It is not a finished business as far as I am concerned. Joubert is a cheat, he sunk France blatantly and was rewarded for it by the IRB.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Just think about the inherent unlikelihood of a ref cheating.
There would need to be some reason for him to cheat.
What do you say is his motivation to cheat? Money? Results? what?