Did Joubert feel the pressure?

[Richo]

I thought Joubert had a poor game by his standards. NZ consistently failed to roll away, had a lot of hands in the ruck, and escape scrum after dominant French scrum without penalty. It wasn't one of those performances were you can point to a couple of egregious errors, more that he allowed NZ latitude that the French did not receive. To my mind, this was less an instance of one side playing the ref better than the other (SA v AUS) and more one of an oft swallowed whistle.

I'm not, by the way, suggesting any kind of conspiracy. I just think Joubert was overwhelmed by the crowd, the occasion and the rule-pushing play of the Kiwis. That's what home crowd advantage gives you from time to time.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

LMAO. The ref was clearly going to be targeted regardless of how well he did.

"He wasn't strict enough"
"He was too strict on team X and not on the other"

If he listened to this advice we'd be hearing

"He was calling penalties that weren't there"
"He is making the game about him"


He actually did alright, there isn't much to complain about. (other than a few offsides missed and not rolling away) both teams had bulk chances and simply didn't take them.

 

[pete88]

In future I'd like to see some rule changes and maybe a trial of a 2 ref system for consistency. Imagine barnes and lawrence reffing the same game, what a clusterfuck that would be.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Maybe I'm one sided but I thought the All Blacks got away with murder at the breakdown, frequently slowing down the ball. When Richie got attention for blood he had been laying all over the ball. I saw numerous obstructions of defending players and in one sequence I saw a chaser obstructed, and then the kick was returned and the French fullback was taken high with no action.

 

[Motorboater]

I think he put the whistle in his pocket towards the back end of the game, though I don't think it particularly favoured any team.

 

[whatty]

Whilst it is hard to pinpoint any clear cut mistakes,

So you answered your question. He had a game that even under today interpretations of the laws you could argue both ways for the 50/50 calls.

 

[Nusadan]

One time Joubert missed a blatant holding back of a AB before that fella was able to come to a ruck before he blew the whistle on another AB for holding the ball in that ruck after being tackled...

 

[Gagger]

I'm sorry - I thought Joubert again applied different levels of interpretation against the two teams and some of his scrum calls were outright crimes.

He favoured NZ 21-14 in penalties across his two final games

Hats off to the French for not losing their shit as they would've done in the past

 

[Muttonbird]

I think he put the whistle in his pocket towards the back end of the game, though I don't think it particularly favoured any team.

He stopped reffing the rucks at about 65mins I thought. Had no effect on the game though.;D

 

[François]

Of course he felt the pressure. He was expecting an AB trouncing of the french, like we all did. Would have made his life a hell of a lot easier.

Instead, he found himself in a position where his whistle would decide the outcome. On several occasions you saw him putting his whistle in his mouth, taking it away, it was quite blatant he was just loosing his cool, and was lacking control.

I mean in that last quarter or so, with the French building 15 + phases within range of the posts, the AB were at fault on numerous occasions, sometimes with hands in rucks, sometimes not rolling away, but mostly just standing off side. Realizing he would be giving the French the victory if he blew his whistle made him choke. You just don't want to ruin the party for the New Zealanders, and that's fair enough, they've been the best side for years, and during this tournament too. Them loosing by 2 points to the French, at home, would have been absolutely devastating.

I know that an AB win was the only outcome possible for this world cup, when you think of it. And France was globally sub par, except in the final. But I can't help to think that: after winning lucky against 14 men in the semis, we lost bravely against 16 in the final. How's that for setting the record straight ?

And on a side note, the players just gave a nice little "fuck you" to all the doubters out there (myself included I guess) and especially to the british and New Zealander Journalists. Some of them will be eating their words.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

If he started reffing the breakdown more strictly the penalty count would still look similar. France were pretty careless with their breakdown entry and were isolated in attack many times, Joubert pretty much saved them in a number of rucks by not calling anything.

NZ were systematically breaking the laws, and France doing it carelessly, hence why I think they'd still get picked out a little more than NZ with a stricter ref.

 

[Toby Lerone]

It's all very well speculating about why Craig didn't award any penalties against New Zealand at the end of the game, but it must be remembered that this game is not just the biggest for the players, but also the officials as well.

Joubs has had a great tournament and was quite rightly awarded the final - I'd have like to see Barnesy doing it, but Craig has been the better referee through the tournament. However, this was probably his worst performance of the World Cup.

Let's not sit here and blame various decisions/non-decisions for the result: I believe he called the game as he saw it, and I would rather see that from a ref than one going in with pre-conceived ideas and destroying the game. When Craig watches the tape back, I'm sure he will be honest enough to admit his mistakes and learn from them in the future. He's still a young referee, and whether you like him or not, he'll be around for many years to come and will be a better person for this experience.

I cant think of a better way of putting it than Mark Lawrence did: "My philosophy is that refereeing is not a popularity contest, it is a test of integrity, honesty and having the guts to make the right decision at the right time, REGARDLESS"

 

[jauzy19]

Vote against Craig Joubert : http://www.facebook.com/pages/CRAIG-JOUBERT-DEMISSION/306754312684815?sk=wall = Craig Joubert must resign

 

[Alex]

I'm sorry - I thought Joubert again applied different levels of interpretation against the two teams and some of his scrum calls were outright crimes.

He favoured NZ 21-14 in penalties across his two final games

Hats off to the French for not losing their shit as they would've done in the past

Refs often make mistakes and it is easy for those of us with the benefit of slow motion replays to be over-critical. It is also all too easy to point at refereeing interpretations that bear no resemblance to the rule book (when was the last time you saw a "flying wedge" penalised (a "pod" for the youngsters), or free kick given for a scrum not being stationary and parallel in a world of power hits, or a scrum feed not being straight - and the confusion around what constitutes a forward pass is astonishing given the laws). The list goes on but this has to be problem with the administration of rugby rather than referees. Rugby seems to have become a game refereed by "custom and practice" rather than the laws, which has the foreseeable and inevitable consequence of inconsistency between the laws and referees and between referees - with the further foreseeable and inevitable consequence of players and supporters aways being able to point to errors and inconsistencies and feeling aggreived when they lose. Where a team has an "abnormal" record under a referee I do not accept that it is because of bias, but usually because the referee's "style" either suits or does not suit the "style" of a team. Australia, for example, is normally a team that will usually do better with the breakdown strictly enforced and both teams getting quick ball. Generally Australian supporters will prefer, say, a Wayne Barnes to a Nigel Ownes or Bryce Lawrence. Munster and Ireland supporters may have a different view. That said, the irony should not be lost on anyone that it suited Australia for the breakdown to become a dogfight in the QF when Brussow went off and Australia couldn't buy a lineout.

International referees are doing a tough job and are neither incompetent nor, I hope, intentionally biased. The rules are complex, a lot happens very quickly in the game and the laws (unfortunately) do not give a lot of assistance to players or supporters in knowing what to expect from referees. It is frequently the case that all players and coaches ask for is consistency and most times this is (for good or ill) this is what they get. Also, of the refs who were appointed to the world cup (putting aside that it was a slightly odd list) - my pick for the final would always have been Joubert or Barnes and I think it is right that they got the two games this weekend.

All of that said, I though Joubert's display today was hard to explain - not for good faith errors or "style" (he has form with the AB scrum) - we pick the best person for the job and if it then goes wrong we made a decision for the right reasons, it is one of the variables in rugby that we have to live with whether we like it or not. My issue, like Gagger, was that the refereeing seemed staggeringly inconsistent. Without rewatching the game or dwelling on issues of "interpretation", the list of examples that I can come up with are patchy but certainly when Poux couldn't make it to a set piece NZ were given a free kick for French time wasting, when McCaw couldn't, Joubert blew time off. When NZ collapsed a scrum it was reset, when France did it was penalised. An accidental offside when a knock on hit a team mate last week was a penalty (Horwill onto AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)), this week when NZ did it it was a scrum. When the game was safe last week a shoulder charge was an immediate yellow - at least three NZ high tackles this week were ignored. Unfortunately, (and I mean genuinely unfortunately for both teams, both sets of supporters and the game) it is hard to conclude that in the context of this match that inconsistencies may not have affected the result.

 

[Hawkeye]

I will say it again. But something needs to be done about politics keeping Wayne Barnes from refereeing the RWC Playoffs. Before the RWC Wayne Barnes was without doubt the best referee in the world. He would have been perfect to referee this game, however the NZ media would have a fit had Barnes been refereeing this game. Barnes is the most consistent referee in world rugby. You know what your getting with him. With Joubert he went missing.

Joubert is the No1 Ref and was given the job because of that. Barnes would never get the gig because he isn't the best Ref, and because of the 2007 influence.

As in saying it again, did you voice your concerns prior to the game, because this is looking very much like a sad pathetic post.

 

[fatprop]

Joubert allowed too many players to block the attackers ball by falling the "wrong" way at the ruck and generally ignored the tackler having to release, especially when there was another defender moving to attack the ball.

 

[Blob]

Lots of AB hate here, as usual. It comes with the success I suppose.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Joubert allowed too many players to block the attackers ball by falling the "wrong" way at the ruck and generally ignored the tackler having to release, especially when there was another defender moving to attack the ball.

I believe Captain Tackles received a penalty at one point, when he should have been penalized for not releasing. I would say Joubert was biased, just unable to catch a lot of All Black underhanded tactics.

 

[Jay]

Lots of AB hate here, as usual. It comes with the success I suppose.

Yeah - just have to console ourselves with the fact that they're now unquestionably the most successful rugby team in the history of the game. Small consolation, I know.

 

[fatprop]

I believe Captain Tackles received a penalty at one point, when he should have been penalized for not releasing. I would say Joubert was biased, just unable to catch a lot of All Black underhanded tactics.

Joubert isn't biased, that is rubbish

Both sides were at it, Joubert allows a dock yard brawl at the breakdown, the ABs were better at working to his interpretation. As long as there is a bit of pushing, Joubert lets a lot go.

Just like Aus worked out Lawrence for the qtr final game after being owned in the pool game.