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Defending the rolling maul

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disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
After watching the Boks game again I think this is an area the pack really struggled & it actually cost us 10 points which is pretty alarming considering the Boks only formed 4 during the 80 minutes.

I'm sure this something they will work on while in camp but I'll be pretty nervous anytime the All Blacks have a lineout within 5-10 metres from our tryline.
 
R

Richard D. James

Guest
I really think here in Oz we rely too much on trying to sack the maul before it forms and not enough on teamwork and aggression. That's the one way you will always be able to stop a maul, push back harder than they are pushing you.

The other problem with this is that it essentially means you can't contest the lineout as you are getting ready for the sack and not contesting lineouts really grinds my gears. We should always have jumpers going up.

We also try to shear off bits of the maul to bring it to ground but this relies more on individuals than a collective team effort.

As you say though, I'm sure they will be working on it.
 
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antipodean

Guest
After watching the Boks game again I think this is an area the pack really struggled & it actually cost us 10 points which is pretty alarming considering the Boks only formed 4 during the 80 minutes.

I'm sure this something they will work on while in camp but I'll be pretty nervous anytime the All Blacks have a lineout within 5-10 metres from our tryline.
Why? The All Blacks haven't mauled properly for decades. They're shit at it.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Go back to 2009 and the combination of Mumm and Sharpe were very efficient at infiltrating and break up opposition mauls, in some cases they were able to contest the ball of the opponents maul. They were efficient in positioning themselves (some would say offside) at the time of formation so they were halfway through the maul when it formed. The Tahs were the best at counter maul in the competition this year IMO and the Force not too bad either when Sharpe was on. They really must do something more than try and sack it or not engage at all. It would be naive to think that England, SA and Italy will not use this tactic even from 25 out, especially given the Wallabies demonstrated lack of skill in this phase this year.
 
U

Utility Back

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Otherwise i do agree it definitely needs work, against Samoa it was completely ineffective of going anywhere, and against SA we just were not ready at all to combat it.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Why? The All Blacks haven't mauled properly for decades. They're shit at it.

I remember the All Blacks (Jason eaton) scoring off a rolling maul against the Wallabies in 2006 from about 30 metres out. I know that was a while back but they still pulled it out of the hat.

I hate mauls, i really liked being able to collapse them. Glorified obstruction.

I disagree with that & think it's a real dark art of the game that takes a lot of power & skill to perfect very similar to the scrum.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
The other problem with this is that it essentially means you can't contest the lineout as you are getting ready for the sack and not contesting lineouts really grinds my gears.

Yeah I think contesting the lineout 5 metres out isn't a bad idea especially when you know they are setting for a rolling maul but if you don't spoil or disrupt the lineout it's almost certainly try time.

Last time I saw that was Justin Harrison @ Twickers 2004 & he did win the lineout against the throw.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
I really think here in Oz we rely too much on trying to sack the maul before it forms and not enough on teamwork and aggression. That's the one way you will always be able to stop a maul, push back harder than they are pushing you.

The other problem with this is that it essentially means you can't contest the lineout as you are getting ready for the sack and not contesting lineouts really grinds my gears. We should always have jumpers going up.

We also try to shear off bits of the maul to bring it to ground but this relies more on individuals than a collective team effort.

As you say though, I'm sure they will be working on it.

The problem with the pushing theory is that the attacking team always has the potential to push elsewhere, by changing the point of attack.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
And that the attacking team already has a head of steam up by the time the defence has time to set. Of two packs of equal size and skill there is no way the defending team can 'legally' repel the maul with any effectiveness.

Tis a formidable weapon to say the least.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Our opinion is formed because our rugby is, in the main, played on drier, harder, sandy soil, which gives a premium to running with the ball and a discount to scrummaging, because in Oz rugby the studs don't move around a lot in mud - and to mauling which, except near the goal line, is less productive than running play. In the NH in winter conditions, running rugby is suicide rugby.


I hope that mauling stays in our game. It is not for the nostalgia of the olden times when, at Rugby School the sport was one long maul interrupted by going over the goal line which allowed the team that did it have a "try" to kick at goal from in line from where the ball was grounded.


That ancient practice did not outlast the 19th Century and in fact the new century saw the outlawing of what we call the maul today. The modern maul is little more than 50 years old.


Where was I? The maul should stay, firstly because of the NH conditions, and secondly, for the charter of rugby which mentions that our sport has to be for all shapes and sizes.


Law changes, especially since the start of the professional era, have had a propensity to speed up the game - provided one can ignore the stoppages caused by the abominable delays of the modern scrum which disadvantage the dominant team. Therefore any ELV, or consequent law, which tends to disadvantage the participation of larger lads, who have trouble speeding up, should be discouraged.


I understand the main objection: that it is legalised obstruction, I really do, but I would answer that if the maul is in the book it would be better to get good at it, or countering it, than angling for a law change.


And I can even counter the argument for the maul by such people as our dear friend Thomond78: that the maul generates tries, Why do we object: can't we see that? The rebuttal of the average Aussie would be that that is the very point of their objection.


And the dogs bark, and the caravan moves on.
 

chiraag

Larry Dwyer (12)
Pretty sure I saw Pek doing a good job of infiltrating a decent looking Bok rolling maul in the last 10 minutes of the game this week heading straight up the middle and bringing it to an end. I thought that was a pretty good effort and therefore rated Pek's cameo a bit higher than others seem to be on the site.
And like others have said, Sharpie seems to have a knack for doing the same. Other than that, I think this is an area where the wallabies are particularly vulnerable and have been exploited quite a bit before, especially from the Northern Hemisphere sides. Hopefully it's something that we'll practise a bit more, after some of the easy yards a pretty mediocre SA pack made against us on the weekend
 

EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7

Syd Malcolm (24)
The players that are there have not grown up with the tactic and don't understand it in my opinion.

England won a World Cup with it and a fly half who is probably one of the best to play the game.

Get your F(*&$(* heads in there and if you have to break and break fingers to break up the binds.

Either that or do what the Italians do. Don't F($*%* contest it and get a penalty. When they wise up that you don't contest they will do quick ball.

That F(*&(*() simple.
 
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