Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[Rugby Central]

This is something I wouldn't mind seeing the ARU coming to the party in terms of paying for the broadcast side of things provided it is broadcast as Seven's digital platform nationwide.

Hi WCR,

It's not that your idea is without merit, it's that rugby administration in Australia is without credibility...and money.

My previous suggestion was to split out 1st Grade and Colts 1sts (and possibly 2nd grade) to play an elite SS that would have the flexibility to be played any time night or day because you're putting together 2-3 matches instead of 7 or 8.

This means more opportunity for TV revenue as games are on at a time that would sell. Gate revenue would increase because the matches wouldn't conflict with everyone else who plays for fun on a Saturday. The rest of the Club's teams play on Saturdays as the social side of the Club. This isn't so much as creating another tier as it is accepting that the reasons for guys turning up to play 3rd grade and below are no different than the guys that play Subbies. They love the game and they love the Club. So let them play with Subbies for their Club.

Once it can be proven Club rugby can produce an elite style competition, investors will be willing to put the money in. Once you have money you can plan interstate club championships etc. At the moment the structure gives Shute Shield the perception, not a reflection of fact, of just a higher level of park footy.

I was howled down because it would be "too hard", "where would reserves come from", "it would ruin the culture of the Club". Even though AFL and League manage to put teams out each week across several divisions under similar formats and thrived.

Sadly there isn't a genuine appetite for reform across all levels of the game in Australia. The only way change will occur is if people are willing to come up with ideas that don't require sticking their hand out to the ARU.

Reform has to come to earn the money. Not "give me money and I'll reform"

 

[I like to watch]

You still haven't answered the question, 'where will the reserves come from'

If I'm a 3rd grader and you tell me that for my $400 rego, and as a reward for training hard all summer I get to be a fresh reserve for 2's.
I'd say you're dreaming.

And if I'm scheduled to play 3's at Manly 2pm Saturday, and you ask me to sit on the bench for a team that I no longer even train with, at Coogee on Fri night or Sunday arvo, I'll be busy doing pretty much anything but that.
Club spirit comes from inclusiveness, not exclusiveness

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You still haven't answered the question, 'where will the reserves come from'

If I'm a 3rd grader and you tell me that for my $400 rego, and as a reward for training hard all summer I get to be a fresh reserve for 2's.
I'd say you're dreaming.

And if I'm scheduled to play 3's at Manly 2pm Saturday, and you ask me to sit on the bench for a team that I no longer even train with, at Coogee on Fri night or Sunday arvo, I'll be busy doing pretty much anything but that.
Club spirit comes from inclusiveness, not exclusiveness

Clubs would effectively run elite squads of 25 or so players. With their '2nds' being a mox of guys pushing for inclusion/up and coming youngsters. The facts are if the clubs want to position themselves as an elite tier and one with commercial entertainment value they need to alter their structures to accomodate to not only club diehards but the average punter as well. Playing games at 3pm every Saturday isn't exactly conducive to this. Many people are out involved in work or sporting activities of their own.

The elite squad would still train alongside everyone else. And there would still be a pathway from the lower grades into that squad but if the clubs want to grow their commercial base they have to accomodate the market.

 

[Rugby Central]

You are aware that you're enforcing the perception that SS is just glorified park footy?

Solution to your dilemma, make it only 1st grade and 1 Colts. If you're not willing to be a fresh reserve for first grade then you probably don't have much ambition to play professional footy. In this day an age any coach who goes into a game at that level believing he only needs 15 players for the match barring injury, shouldn't be coaching at that level; unless you're suggesting the 1st grade SS isn't at that level.

ILTW, please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating for the destruction of SS Clubs. The fact is nobody wants to put money into SS as it is. So without some fairly significant change, the money wont magically appear.

Out of curiosity which is more inclusive:

1. Playing at a time when only the Club's players and close family and friends can come and watch
   OR
2. Playing when every rugby fan and player in the community has the opportunity to get to the game to support their local Club without missing out on their own footy.

 

[I like to watch]

How does separating the 1's from the rest of the club improve the standard?

How long until this 'new high quality rugby' translates into commercial success?

Bearing in mind that both the Rats and Marlins outdraw the Rays, and SS telecasts on the b channel draw more viewers than NRC and many Super games?

Change for changes sake, invariably ends in tears.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Playing games during more spectator friendly timeslots helps build the audience watching which in turn helps build the overall value of sponsorship etc. More eyes equals more money for the competition and the clubs. Playing at 3pm may be tradition and worked perfectly well in the days of ABC but on a more commercially oriented platform that is Sevens digital channels you cannot sit back and expect the market to come to you.

Club Rugby has the ability to produce a product that can entertain and generate interest but tucking itself away in the comforts of a less than advantageous timeslot isn't going to grow its bottom line.

Rugby Central is only suggesting a means of reaching a larger percentage of the market by altering the schedule to fit with more viewer friendly timeslots. Seriously, what would be the harm in playing the Saturday game at 5:30 instead of at 3 or scheduling a Friday evening game for a club once a season?

If altering the schedule brings more people to the ground or viewing at home that will allow for the clubs to benefit more from gameday activities and broadcast arrangements. Which then means more resources can be directed into the players which will lead to higher standards of play.

 

[I like to watch]

Rats played a couple of Fri night games last year.and have played 5.30 games semi regularly over the past few years.
Pretty sure Norths played a few fi nights as well last year.

scheduling changes is just fiddling at the edges.
Many marketing people believe it's important to maintain a specific time slot,so that the punters know when it's on.

I'm not against it, I just don't believe any of these changes provide any benefits at all.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It doesn't have to wholesale right away. More moving the current 3pm TV game to a slightly later timeslot as a means of catching more of the audience.

 

[TOCC]

If they played on Friday nights then the 2nds players could still back up the next day for the 2nds team..

I don't think their is a massive need to segregate the premier grade from the rest of the club


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[p.Tah]

Apparently the NSW government gave rugby $235k in the 2015/2016 FY and there are only 75k club players

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rugby-uni...her-participation-sports-20170302-gup5i9.html

 

[half]

Apparently the NSW government gave rugby $235k in the 2015/2016 FY and there are only 75k club players

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rugby-uni...her-participation-sports-20170302-gup5i9.html

Read that article today and it screamed to me how Rugby, League and AFL are at getting funds out of government pointing to in many ways connections and I guess influence.

What screamed more was how Netball was yelling what about us look at our player numbers and the graph showed soccer had more player than rugby, league, AFL, cricket combined and they got about the smallest amount.

So expect pressure from these sports in the future.

Epping and Hillview rugby combined have less than a handful of teams and between Somaville oval with its two fields and the two fields opposite Epping boys we have about a field a team.

I can see massive public pressure on junior rugby in the very near future to hold its fields and continue to enjoy resource allocation. Now its a female issue i.e. netball expect the smh to make it an issue and maybe the ABC to follow suit.

 

[The_Wookie]

Read that article today and it screamed to me how Rugby, League and AFL are at getting funds out of government pointing to in many ways connections and I guess influence.

What screamed more was how Netball was yelling what about us look at our player numbers and the graph showed soccer had more player than rugby, league, AFL, cricket combined and they got about the smallest amount.

So expect pressure from these sports in the future.

Epping and Hillview rugby combined have less than a handful of teams and between Somaville oval with its two fields and the two fields opposite Epping boys we have about a field a team.

I can see massive public pressure on junior rugby in the very near future to hold its fields and continue to enjoy resource allocation. Now its a female issue i.e. netball expect the smh to make it an issue and maybe the ABC to follow suit.

The problem remains what it always has been - and the netball folks in the article pointed this out - some codes are more professionally run than others. Others are just lazy or cbf'd doing the work required to get the funding.

 

[Rugby Central]

Bearing in mind that both the Rats and Marlins outdraw the Rays, and SS telecasts on the b channel draw more viewers than NRC and many Super games?

Manly and Warringah are going ok so all is right with Australian Rugby?

Pity that most other clubs are running out of money because sponsors are thin on the ground and gate revenue is barely enough to cover costs. So much so, several clubs have had to sell their only revenue generating asset (licensed club) and now Eastwood has to flog off the family jewel to pull themselves out of the mud.

SS is one of the best rugby competitions in the world, but I'm a former player and devotee of the game. Despite my joking about it on other posts, I do talk to a lot of people with no clue about rugby. For anybody outside the fans, it's a bunch of beer swilling, private school, yobs. It doesn't matter that it's not the truth, investors will not put money into a venture that looks unprofessional. And to the outside observer there is little to no difference between the competition Warringah play to that played by Rouse Hill.

Until people are willing to come up with reforms to benefit ALL clubs and can generate revenue that doesn't require a handout, then I don't see a chance for any positive change.

How does separating the 1's from the rest of the club improve the standard?

ILTW you asked the question so I'll answer. If SS is generating serious revenue for each Club then resources, coaches, even reduction in fees will increase development, recruitment and dare I say it, profit.

I think this is where you and I are having a disconnect, you are very fairly looking at this from the Club's perspective, I am looking at it from the whole sports perspective and that the SS has the ability to "lift all boats"

ILTW it's quite obvious you're not interested in any material change because you love the SS as it is. And nothing I can say will dissuade you from this view. So I now bow out of this current discussion and wish you all the best and hope the Mighty Marlins smash all those who dare to face them.

 

[I like to watch]

You were suggesting that an improvement in standard would automatically generate more income.
I cited the Rats, Marlins Ray's to demonstrate its not automatic.
3 years in, and Ray's don't have nearly the support of either of these teams,despite being a better standard.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Apparently the NSW government gave rugby $235k in the 2015/2016 FY and there are only 75k club players

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rugby-uni...her-participation-sports-20170302-gup5i9.html

What's interesting is that it AFL at roughly the same and League not that much more.

 

[barbarian]

The whole thing is a red herring though. It just looks at one very small stream of Government funding, and excludes a bunch of others.

Rugby received a massive grant through Clubs NSW to build their HQ at Moore Park. League has received millions to build a massive training centre at Penrith. Netball had a new stadium built for them.

And this is all just NSW State funding, doesn't touch of anything federal (like the big grant we get from the ASC as part of the Olympic program).

Not sure what the true figures would show, really, but I do know those figures don't show the full picture.
.

 

[The torpedo]

A big fucking cleanout of the ARU and State RU head honchos needs to be in order

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A big fucking cleanout of the ARU and State RU head honchos needs to be in order

Why?

 

[The torpedo]

Why?

Change starts at the top.

It appears to me that there is too many 'old boys' running the ARU and state RUs.

Complete outsiders need to be appointed as head honchos if rugby is to get a better standing in this country.

A Frank Lowy-type person as ARU Chairman will be key as well

 

[Braveheart81]

Change starts at the top.

It appears to me that there is too many 'old boys' running the ARU and state RUs.

Complete outsiders need to be appointed as head honchos if rugby is to get a better standing in this country.

A Frank Lowy-type person as ARU Chairman will be key as well

If someone wants to pour tens of millions of dollars into the game then they are welcome to run it.

What sort of talent are you likely to get if you insist on people who a) have no background in rugby and b) can get paid substantially more to do similar jobs in other sectors.

I think it is pure fantasy to think that people with no rugby background would walk in and do a better job.

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