Deans confirmed until 2013

[Scotty]

What on earth was Elsom thinking with 20 minutes to go and taking the 3 points to get them back to a 13 point differential? Surely that doesn't make sense - it assumes you are going to score two tries, both converted, and then stop the opposition from scoring anything. I was a little astounded.

I am even more concerned now about his captaincy than I was before. I want Horwill or Sharpe.

 

[Richo]

Well, he needed to make up for passing up 3 good penalty opportunities in the first 20 minutes. Duh.

:thumb

 

[chief]

I like to address this debate by asking the question: What has Deans achieved?

Answer: Not much. Not enough.

The thing that keeps Deans in his job is his and ARU HQ's sicko optimism in saying "it's a long term strategy." They point to JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, Beale and Genia's development as players. Yes that's all well and all, but optimism doesn't warrant a contract extension nor does it warrant Deans "untouchable" position as National coach.

At the end of the day we lost to Samoa who couldn't beat Japan. Someone's head should be on a plate. I don't know whether it should be JON's or Deans or Rocky's or Giteau or someone else.

But we lost to Samoa.

 

[Red Rooster]

I like to address this debate by asking the question: What has Deans achieved?

Answer: Not much. Not enough.

The thing that keeps Deans in his job is his and ARU HQ's sicko optimism in saying "it's a long term strategy." They point to JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, Beale and Genia's development as players. Yes that's all well and all, but optimism doesn't warrant a contract extension nor does it warrant Deans "untouchable" position as National coach.

At the end of the day we lost to Samoa who couldn't beat Japan. Someone's head should be on a plate. I don't know whether it should be JON's or Deans or Rocky's or Giteau or someone else.

But we lost to Samoa.

JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, Beale and Genia were not found by Deans under some rock. If you add Pocock too you will see that they were bought into the professional level by Provincial coaches and they were all talent id'd by others. Cooper and Genia were playing for Eddie before Deans arrived, Link was using KB (Kurtley Beale) at the Tahs in 2007 as the starting 10 and again in 2008, Pocock and JOC (James O'Connor) were recruited by Mitchell and debuted under him. Deans at best saw the same potential as the provincial coaches and picked them at the next level. he picked picked others like kingi, Morahan, Cowan, Dennis who have not pushed through. Its a bit rich to be giving massive credit for picking already talented players and giving them a go which ostensibly is his job to do that. He probably persisted with JOC (James O'Connor) despite his inexperience but the others emerged as normally talented young players do as they mature

 

[Gagger]

What on earth was Elsom thinking with 20 minutes to go and taking the 3 points to get them back to a 13 point differential? Surely that doesn't make sense - it assumes you are going to score two tries, both converted, and then stop the opposition from scoring anything. I was a little astounded.

I am even more concerned now about his captaincy than I was before. I want Horwill or Sharpe.

Are you more likely to score 3 tries than 2 and a penalty (that you have at that point)?

 

[pete88]

The point is you need tries either way Gagger. As you've just said the penalty is not crucial, and more to the point the tries would have given momentum. I thought that was another example of us disrespecting the opposition and the fixture.

 

[Scotty]

Are you more likely to score 3 tries than 2 and a penalty (that you have at that point)?

Firstly, the penalty wasn't a given from 45m out, secondly we needed time and position to get those tries.

We were more likely to win from scoring a try than scoring a penalty at that point, I have no doubt about that.

 

[Gnostic]

Well this thread is a vindication of the sack Deans thread I started in June last year. How much better off would the Wallabies be if a new coaching team had 12 months to prepare for the RWC. Now it's too late. Can anybody honestly say the Wallabies are better than the 2007 model, flashy brilliant individuals yes, but a better Rugby TEAM, I think not any better at all.

 

[DPK]

How much better off would the Wallabies be if a new coaching team had 12 months to prepare for the RWC.

No one, and I mean no one at all, can answer this question in a meaningful way.

You seem ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. Do you have a particular gripe with Deans' personally?

 

[Gnostic]

No one, and I mean no one at all, can answer this question in a meaningful way.

You seem ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. Do you have a particular gripe with Deans' personally?

Personally, of course not and please refrain from attempting to imply such. As Wallabies coach absolutely. Baby out with batj water would have been after the 're-building' losses in 2008. My point in starting thethread last year was the total lack of critical review Deans was subject to. So answer the question I posed in my post above, take out the moments of flashy brilliance by individuals, are the 2011 Wallabies a better TEAM than the 2008 model? No honest and critical review of the available evidence including statistics can conclude they are. Hence Deans is not only a failure on the score board but in developing this TEAM.

 

[barbarian]

Firstly, the penalty wasn't a given from 45m out, secondly we needed time and position to get those tries.

We were more likely to win from scoring a try than scoring a penalty at that point, I have no doubt about that.

Hindsight is a marvellous thing.

 

[DPK]

Personally, of course not and please refrain from attempting to imply such. As Wallabies coach absolutely. Baby out with batj water would have been after the 're-building' losses in 2008. My point in starting thethread last year was the total lack of critical review Deans was subject to. So answer the question I posed in my post above, take out the moments of flashy brilliance by individuals, are the 2011 Wallabies a better TEAM than the 2008 model? No honest and critical review of the available evidence including statistics can conclude they are. Hence Deans is not only a failure on the score board but in developing this TEAM.

Please refrain from implying that I was implying anything other than what I asked.

You don't see anything wrong with making a decisive judgement based on one game with two weeks prep?

 

[Gagger]

Firstly, the penalty wasn't a given from 45m out, secondly we needed time and position to get those tries.

We were more likely to win from scoring a try than scoring a penalty at that point, I have no doubt about that.

Really? It had taken us the whole game to that point to score was it 1 or 2 tries and you're expecting 3 in quick succession?

All logic I've heard in that situation is that you take the points on offer and make it possible to win with the least number of tries. Gits kicked 5/6 on the day.

My bigger gripe, and on re-watching I believe lost us the game, was the decision making in the first 30 mins when we turned down at least 9 points or more. This took the pressure of the scoreboard off of the Samoans and gave them the confidence and space to play like they did. We've made this mistake before, I don't get why it's still happening

 

[Gnostic]

Please refrain from implying that I was implying anything other than what I asked.

You don't see anything wrong with making a decisive judgement based on one game with two weeks prep?

I have no problem making a judgement based upon the continuation of a pattern of a mode of play we have seen for three years. Results play a part in coming to the conclusion but mode of play and improvements in core skills are a bigger part.

 

[Ruggo]

The option for goal was a silly move. What we needed was needed was continuity through possesion, building pressure and actually trying to ware the Samoans down. Rocky's decision must have been a huge morale boost for the Samoans as it had the message that we could not penetrate them.

 

[antipodean]

What on earth was Elsom thinking with 20 minutes to go and taking the 3 points to get them back to a 13 point differential? Surely that doesn't make sense - it assumes you are going to score two tries, both converted, and then stop the opposition from scoring anything. I was a little astounded.

It makes perfect sense. The Wallabies needed to score three times.

 

[Scotty]

Barbar,

I said it at the time. Surprised others didn't also think the same thing?

 

[Scotty]

It makes perfect sense. The Wallabies needed to score three times.

They needed to get in touch first. Scoring two tries after that relied upon 1. Gits kicking it 2. Samoa not scoring another point 3. Gits converting two tries if we got them. And as ruggo said it was a bad signal to the Samoans.

Sense? He turned down 2 or 3 easy kicks at nil all and takes the one from 45m out when we are 16 points down? How does that make sense?

 

[barbarian]

In the end its all hypothetical and would have made no difference. We scored only one try in the second half and that was a bit of a fluke. Never really got close enough for that decision to matter.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Arguing about whether or not we should have sacked Deans *12 months ago* is utterly academic. It didn't happen and he's the coach going into the RWC. That is the reality, no matter how much any one of us might want it to be another way. The fact is, when he was hired, there were very few quality candidates for the job. Knuckles didn't want it, Link was in France and Scott Johnson was about the only other guy who might have been good enough. Deans was the best man for the job, even though I have my complaints about how he got it.

The real test is how he and the squad rebound from this. The world hasn't come to an end, but it could well do if we don't give a much better account of ourselves this weekend.