Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
I've never seen Horne listed at 193. I'd say 186 may be right, and 88 sounds right too.
De-runting the backline
- Thread starter RugbyReg
- Start date
- Status
I've never seen Horne listed at 193. I'd say 186 may be right, and 88 sounds right too.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Totally agree Ruggo. There will be plenty of time to determine our best squad in all positions, especially with some guys coming back from long term injuries.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Anybody still think we're too small? Last night was an interesting experiment in deliberately going for size over skill in midfield for the French and they paid dearly. Our guys were too quick and too creative for them. It was also proof positive that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can be the answer at 13. He was devastating all game and straightened the attack beautifully. His fend caused numerous problems.
You could say he was Morty-esque even.
You could say he was Morty-esque even.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Barnes had a couple of good crash balls also. Almost certain he is heavier than the 87kg he is quoted as.
observer
Tom Lawton (22)
It's more about speed, power, strength and skills ......and as we saw today little blokes just love getting on top of their bigger opponents. The Wallaby backs would have just loved that talk all week about being beat up by their 100kg+ opponents. Thanks to our forwards our boys were able to ply their trade.
MrMouse
Bob Loudon (25)
And ride 'em like a pony. Wheeeeeeee.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
The go forward from the pigs certainly helped, as we were often getting the ball to Cooper and Barnes on the front foot.
T
TOCC
Guest
The main aspect was the angles our backs were running and the quality ball they were receiving, the attack was confusing the defence meaning they were constantly on the backfoot which made it much easier for our backs to get over the advantage line. It seemed from the get go that the loose forwards were intent on sweeping across and getting Cooper, even there inside centre seemed to have his eyes on Cooper moreso then Barnes or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).. This freed up a lot of space outside and was evident in the first try, 2 defenders looking at Cooper, 1 looking at Barnes and no one looking at JOC (James O'Connor).
sevenpointdropgoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
I agree. One of the great things about a dangerous play maker is not only what they can do, but what opposing teams will commit to try to stop them. The French looked at times like they had decided Coopers channel was the only thing happening. They certainly gave AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) a mountain of room, which he used by putting them to the sword. Special mention should go to Barnes here, who ran straight, rather than sideways, which is widely regarded as a more effective way of making space than crabbing.
Edit (again): I also wonder about the tendency for everyone to make a huge fuss about big guys in the backs. Australia can certainly use one bigger guy to take the ball forward, but you don't have to be huge to make straight meters. Horne (for instance) made fairly good meters running straight all season for the Tahs (when he wasn't broken). An 85 to 90kg guy is not that much smaller than a 105kg guy, and with some speed, skill and a willingness to commit when necessary, they can be as effective. That's not to say a big guy like Nonu isn't going to find it easier to crash through, but the smaller guys can definitely make the right impact if they are properly trained and they have good support from their forwards, and then, when the game does open up, you have a group of players who can really use their speed and skill to make points.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Here's another thing: what rare commodity is prized among all the football codes? Pace. When you have it, you worry your opposition. We had that last night, as well as an adherence to the adage that the ball beats the man. Power is import and not to be underestimated, but swiftness of foot and of ball movement are two very potent weapons in our game. It all clicked for our backs last night (with the help of the aforementioned front foot ball) and not for theirs.
Power and pace are related too. It's not often you find a player at the top level of the game who has top line pace without some power to go with it. Drew Mitchell is an example of that, so is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
Power and pace are related too. It's not often you find a player at the top level of the game who has top line pace without some power to go with it. Drew Mitchell is an example of that, so is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Good post. This is very true. We're at most a direct back (not a big back) from a good balance. If you don't get a hand on them, it doesn't matter whether they're 80kg or 120kg. As long as they can defend. All our small backs except Cooper can defend.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
And our backline will be even more deadly with the return of someone like Ioane who I still rate as the most lethal backline player in the country...
Our backline is not short on talent and hardly needs de-runting...
Back to the point that Lee Grant made about our forwards though... they're nearly there... definitely the scrum needs to be reworked and hopefully a season of both Ben's maintaining their fitness and building themselves back to where they were last year will be a big help... and the the hopeful return of other forwards such as Palu, Horwill, Kimlin etc will be a bonus...
Our backline is not short on talent and hardly needs de-runting...
Back to the point that Lee Grant made about our forwards though... they're nearly there... definitely the scrum needs to be reworked and hopefully a season of both Ben's maintaining their fitness and building themselves back to where they were last year will be a big help... and the the hopeful return of other forwards such as Palu, Horwill, Kimlin etc will be a bonus...
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Yes, Ioane is the direct back we need. The question is, who to replace? I think it has to be Barnes.
We have a list of power forwards to re-grunt the pack. Bring 'em on.
sevenpointdropgoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
I'm inclined to agree, but we might need a more extensive change. Barnes can drive forward, can switch into first 5/8 during play, can kick if necessary and is an excellent defender. If we are going to replace him we need someone who can do these things, or offers something better running the ball and passing. A. Finger probably isn't the man. Chambers or Horne could be taught to do what is needed, but they need time in the position. If we've got the forwards sorted, and guys like Bam Bam, TPN and Palu (and others) are making space, then a guy like Horne would be perfect. Schmoo and JOC (James O'Connor), and Turner for that matter, need space - they need good defenders, guys who will give them pill, and guys who will run straight. If the French test showed us anything, it is that the backline destroys teams when they've got space, and a confused defensive pattern from the other team. Beale can move the ball around like a genius, and give the wingers the ball, but he definitely needs space. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can get the ball across the line, and help to set up the back three. Barnes can chop and change depending on what it required, in fact the thing I like most about him is his ability to adapt, and his willingness to play what ever role is given to him - when Cooper and Sanchez are making plays he can run straight, and when Cooper steps outside, he can step into first receiver and kick or pass (though neither aspect of his game is perfect).
Ioane has to be in there if he has the form, but where you put him is interesting. Personally I'd run him as a winger, put Schmoo onto the bench as an impact player, and keep Barnes until we've got a better option.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
Both Mitchell and JOC (James O'Connor) have had their moments this year, and Turner as well when he has had the opportunity.
Ioane can play at 13 or on the wing and will be in the squad. No doubt there will be an injury concern or two during the next 12 months and we have some great depth in our backs division to cover that.
Ioane can play at 13 or on the wing and will be in the squad. No doubt there will be an injury concern or two during the next 12 months and we have some great depth in our backs division to cover that.
Ham
Sydney Middleton (9)
Its absurd to put Chambers in a dream wallabies line up when he hasn't even played a test.
- Status