De-runting the backline

[RugbyReg]

Ok, so is there a bit of a consensus that our backline lacks a bit in the size department? It's a bit of a balancing act because the likes of Genia, Cooper, Beale and possibly JOC (James O'Connor) offer so much in attack that we don't really want to sacrifice that for pure size, do we?

We're not going to move KB (Kurtley Beale), I hope, and the halves of Genia (if fit) and Quade (if tackling) seem fairly settled.

So it's really the other positions we need to fill. What are the options?

Reds:
- Digby Ioane = 182, 95kg
- Will Chambers = 186cm, 101kg
- Luke Morahan = 188cm, 95kg

Tahs:
- Tom Carter = 189cm, 103kg
- Ryan Cross = 191cm, 100kg
- Drew Mitchell = 182cm, 95kg

Brumbies:
- Adam Ashley-Cooper = 182cm, 98kg
- Pat McCabe = 186cm, 92kg
- Henry Speight (2 year development contract) = 186cm, 97kg
- Andrew Smith = 194cm, 106kg
- Tyrone Smith = 178cm, 93kg

Force:
- Cameron Shepherd = 189cm, 104kg
- Mitchell Inman = 191cm, 102kg
- Nick Cummins = 189cm, 98kg
- Pat Dellit = 192cm, 100kg
- Rory Sidey = 188cm, 100kg

Rebels:
- Stirling Mortlock = 191cm, 100kg
- Mark Gerrard = 192cm, 102kg
- Luke Rooney = 191cm, 98kg
- Peter Betham = 191cm, 98kg
- Cooper Vanu = 182cm, 101kg
- Afusipa Taumoepeau = 194cm, 100kg

So what's going to work best?

Diggers and Mitchell on the wing gives us size and still a lot of speed.

So it comes to the centres and how we handle things there.

Disco, and a few others, have been talking up the possibility of a 12 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 13 Chambers combo which I must admit I really find appealing, despite my usual preference for a 2nd 5/8th wearing 12.

The goal kicking option get's confusing there though unless we rely on KB (Kurtley Beale). Perhaps room needs to be made for JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing (taking Mitchell's place for mine) as I think we will need the size in the centres.

Interestingly the Rebels have considerable size across the board. As Lee and Gagger have noted, perhaps they've forecast the step back to a more uncompromising style of back play?

A few sizeable players to watch in that lot, including Andrew Smith from the Brumbies and the Rebels trio of Betham, Vanu and Taumoepeau.

 

[Aussie D]

How big is Horne now? You overlooked him in the 'tahs stats. Also you missed A Finger from the Reds. From the games I saw earlier this year Inman looks to have a lot of potential so possible a combination of 12 Horne / Chamber 13 Chambers / Inman / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with one wing between Diggers / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and the other O'Connor / Mitchell / Turner / Hynes. That's if we discard the 2nd five theory though (which seems like overkill in the current Aussie backline with guys like Beale at fullback and O'Connor on the wing).

 

[Epi]

Mafi Kefu in the centres would fix the problem.

Don't know when his contract at Toulon runs out but I'd be chatting to him...

 

[RugbyReg]

How big is Horne now? You overlooked him in the 'tahs stats. Also you missed A Finger from the Reds. From the games I saw earlier this year Inman looks to have a lot of potential so possible a combination of 12 Horne / Chamber 13 Chambers / Inman / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with one wing between Diggers / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and the other O'Connor / Mitchell / Turner / Hynes. That's if we discard the 2nd five theory though (which seems like overkill in the current Aussie backline with guys like Beale at fullback and O'Connor on the wing).

nah, I didn't overlook either Horne or Fainga'a.

Horne is 186 and 88
Fainga'a is 182 and 92

Neither are monsters.

 

[WB3]

nah, I didn't overlook either Horne or Fainga'a.

Horne is 186 and 88
Fainga'a is 182 and 92

Neither are monsters.

Given how good Horne is (and to a lesser extent Fainga'a, IMO) they would both go a fair way to de-runting/add-grunting the backline.

 

[Ruggo]

All this man love for size. Rugby is meant to be the game for all shapes and sizes.

 

[jay-c]

i think genia/ cooper is concrete as is KB (Kurtley Beale) at fullback and digby on one wing
if u want size id go with chambers and acoop thou id prefer chamers'ez distribution at inside over selfish coops
ashley cooper is a player i think we need(and he deserves) to be on the park for 80mins > id like to see him on the wing if oconner and chambers could gel as a centers combo
ideally id like
9-genia
10-cooper
11-ioane
12- oconner
13-chambers
14-ashley cooper
15- beale

20-burgess
21-barnes
22-mitchel/ hynes
this is a massive waste of gits and barnes i feel thou

 

[Brumbies Guy]

All this man love for size. Rugby is meant to be the game for all shapes and sizes.

I don't get the size obsession either. RR's proposed team adds a avg. increase across the backline of just 3kgs, at the expense of a play maker at 12.

When Digby returns you get back another penetrating runner (which is not necessarily a size dependent trait a la Horne, Fainga'a).

I'd be much interested in Jay-C's team above, not for the additional size it brings, but for the individual styles which would compliment eachother. ie- Cooper, Beale and O'Connor speed, playmaking and support play, Chambers, Ioane and Ashley-Cooper direct runners and offload ability.

RR I can only assume the runt's you are talking about are Barnes/Giteau and O'Connor; all three of which have held their own throughout Super and Test rugby. IMO they each offer more than a lot rather than benefitting from a player with an extra 5kg for the sake of size alone. We're not playing some kind of online fantasy baseball where all results are determined by player stats and ratings after all.

 

[qwerty51]

Who cares about size. I want a dominant runner and a dominant tackler. Horne/Mortlock are that. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Giteau/Barnes ain't.

 

[barbarian]

All this man love for size. Rugby is meant to be the game for all shapes and sizes.

But that's the problem- in the backline we only have one shape and one size.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I also don't get the obsession with size in the backs. Just because someone is big doesn't make them good. I think we have to look at what we want from our centres (in particular) and more importantly the style of game we want to play. I think it was Alan Jones who said: "work out your game plan first and then go find the players to implement that".

So what should our game plan be?

 

[Bullrush]

I also don't get the obsession with size in the backs. Just because someone is big doesn't make them good. I think we have to look at what we want from our centres (in particular) and more importantly the style of game we want to play. I think it was Alan Jones who said: "work out your game plan first and then go find the players to implement that".

So what should our game plan be?

Ummmm....I would have thought you'd look at what players you had first and then work out a game plan that they can best implement.

 

[liquor box]

All this man love for size. Rugby is meant to be the game for all shapes and sizes.

It still is, you can be big, huge or a monster if you want to be good

 

[Reddy!]

LOL size in the backline is very unimportant and unWallaby. You only really need one big runner and either of Ioane, Chambers or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be that next year.

How about we get some size where it counts - in the forwards. Stop this nonsense will baby weight McCalman, Brown, Robinson, Hodgson. Get your Palu's, Baxter's, Higginbothams, TPN's, Vickerman's etc back in the fray and that will make the difference for our backline.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Ummmm....I would have thought you'd look at what players you had first and then work out a game plan that they can best implement.

Chicken and egg, really isn't it? With that said, we have enough players that given the game plan options, there would be candidates to fill them. If we wanted to play two big centres, we can actually do that. Likewise with two playmakers.

It's not like we've only got the bare 22 to choose from.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

LOL size in the backline is very unimportant and unWallaby. You only really need one big runner and either of Ioane, Chambers or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be that next year.

How about we get some size where it counts - in the forwards. Stop this nonsense will baby weight McCalman, Brown, Robinson, Hodgson. Get your Palu's, Baxter's, Higginbothams, TPN's, Vickerman's etc back in the fray and that will make the difference for our backline.

Size only matters to a point in the pack. Look at Chiz, he's bloody huge and should be making mincemeat of his opposition. He doesn't though. Perhaps the old adage of it's the size of the fight in the dog is true.

 

[Richo]

Mitchell is 95kg and probably the best tackle-breaker in Oz rugby (and if it's not him, it's Diggers). Clearly they sew up the wings if we follow this argument. Neither is lightning quick, but they both do things that super-fast but flimsy wingers can't. I'd be curious to see how 12. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and 13. Chambers (or Horne, because he plays big) go. But when I say that, I mean in against Fiji or someone similar, not against a serious test nation.

I think the big question is, should we be playing contrasting players between Cooper and Beale and, if so, how should they contrast? Many like Barnes outside QC (Quade Cooper) because he's a steadying influence and can play a solid, conservative game when needed. But would we be better off with a big crash-baller? Be nice to find out.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Mitchell is 95kg and probably the best tackle-breaker in Oz rugby (and if it's not him, it's Diggers). Clearly they sew up the wings if we follow this argument. Neither is lightning quick, but they both do things that super-fast but flimsy wingers can't. I'd be curious to see how 12. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and 13. Chambers (or Horne, because he plays big) go. But when I say that, I mean in against Fiji or someone similar, not against a serious test nation.

I think the big question is, should we be playing contrasting players between Cooper and Beale and, if so, how should they contrast? Many like Barnes outside QC (Quade Cooper) because he's a steadying influence and can play a solid, conservative game when needed. But would we be better off with a big crash-baller? Be nice to find out.

Reds answered that this year perfectly. Top backline of the competition by far

 

[rugbysmartarse]

the first time I saw Horne run out for the Tahs I thought "holy shit, this kid's going to get steamrolled" His first play was a dominant tackle on a much larger opposition. Size in itself wouldnt be what I picked a team by.

Lets see Sunday morning how the small quick Australian foxes play against the big french brown dogs, so to speak

 

[Groucho]

Who cares about size. I want a dominant runner and a dominant tackler. Horne/Mortlock are that. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Giteau/Barnes ain't.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a dominant runner inside the opposition 22 - he just needs to learn to do the same thing from further out, when a try isn't necessarily on offer. It can only be a mental thing.