Criticism of Elsom

[Spook]

After a scan of the stats, it appears Rocky has the best stats of pretty much any Australian forward. I would suggest the criticism of Elsom is unfounded.

He busts more tackles, makes more offloads, makes more tackles and misses less than any other of the forwards (
(his doesn't even mention his lineout work).

Compare him to TPN (probably next best stats along with Alexander):

Elsom has busted 30 tackles TPN 23
Elsom has run 94 times TPN 78
Elsom has 20 offloads TPN 9
Elsom has made 114 tackles TPN 56
Elsom has missed 9 tackles TPN 16

Let's look at Higgers

12 busted tackles
63 runs
2 offloads
102 tackles
20 missed tackles

 

[Pfitzy]

I agree that a lot of cricism of Elsom is unfounded, but could we stop using stats to back things up? Rugby stats are notoriously fickle, like the game itself.

 

[Wazimba2K]

His criticism is due to the fact that he is a Brumby. Once the he adorns the Green and Gold outfit, the player haters will shut the hell up!

 

[DPK]

I think people expected to see the type of stunts he was pulling for Leinster every week in the Super 14, which just isn't going to happen.

 

[Groucho]

I agree that a lot of cricism of Elsom is unfounded, but could we stop using stats to back things up? Rugby stats are notoriously fickle, like the game itself.

There are stats, and then there are facts. Those numbers are a convincing precis of Rocky's game. How exactly has he been playing 'poorly' as many people have claimed? Beats me.

 

[steiner]

Good example of just how irrelevant stats can be....... Who on earth would claim that Elsom has had a better season than TPN?
Yet some foolish statistician will try and tell you that he has!

 

[sevenpointdropgoal]

I think people expected to see the type of stunts he was pulling for Leinster every week in the Super 14, which just isn't going to happen.

Admittedly he had an awesome season playing with the Celts, but I think it's a tad easier to stand out by making meters as a loose forward over there.

After all, the Celtic/British game, and the Heineken Cup in general, is a more structured affair. The teams take the field and one team gets the ball. That team then traditionally gains 10 meters of field position, before deciding that this constitutes the perfect opportunity for a deep and pointless kick for field position, followed by 30 minutes of increasingly grounded set pieces during which everyone rolls around in the mud. After 80 minutes the team that is covered in the greatest quantity of mud is declared the winner. Extra points are awarded for headbands covered in blood, and being as ugly as Lawrence Dallaglio. In the event of equal muddiness, bloodiness and ugliness, the team with the most drop goals wins.

Running the ball more than 15 meters and evading more than two tackles is like catching the golden stitch; the game is immediately called off, the running team is declared the winner, and the ball runner is Knighted. Refs are issued with a ceremonial sword and Seal of Royal Appointment for this purpose. Fly halves and fullbacks must not attempt this though, as they are arrested if they take more than three steps without kicking the ball. The final score is invariably 8-6. After the mud has been hosed off, Stephen Jones writes a long winded piece in the Sunday Times about the triumph of "real" rugby and dismisses the bunch of fairies playing in the Super 14, presumably because they sometimes spend the game playing rugby rather than getting covered in mud.

What's amazing is that I've never read a Northern Hemisphere Rugby rule book in my life. My intimate knowledge comes entirely from having watched the game. Pretty spiffy eh?

Well, it's not that bad actually.... Stephen Jones is still an idiot though.

I do agree that some writers are being a bit hard on Rocky; he's going pretty well. I think he easily the top number 6 in Australia, and one of the best loose forwards in the the world.

 

[fatprop]

We aren't hard, we just have higher expectations of what we expect of a guy who is now considered world class.

His workrate is clearly less than it used to be, but his touches are of better quality.

 

[Biffo]

When Rocky returned from Leinster I raised the possibility that he might not be as effective in S14 as he had been in Europe because of the difference in the pace of the game and the nature of the contest at the breakdown. He has adjusted and done very well indeed for the Brumbies this year - how is he doing in the G&GR Brumby player of the S14 poll?

Rocky has been hitting blokes hard in defence and has missed few tackles. He has been terrific in the ruck and maul. His ball carrying has been great - look at what happens around him when Rocky has a charge. His ball security is impeccable. The only part of Rocky's game that has not been absolutely top class in his lineout takes - because, simply, the Brumbies have used other options.

Phil Kearns made a good point yesterday, when saying Rocky is a great player. He said something to the effect "when he's under pressure he never transfers that pressure to a team mate, he does the job himself".

His challengers for the Wallaby 6 jersey all had their chances to beat him in the "derbies". None got even close.

I'd like to see Rocky somehow get a couple of months off to clear up all his injury niggles.

Rocky's critics might, perhaps, come up with some specific weakness in his performances?

 

[Scarfman]

From what I've seen, he has got stronger as the season has gone on. Those stats are hard to argue with. I think we all would like to see Rocky really stand out as a world class 6, and he's got a year or two to do that. But note that even those of us with criticisms have got Rocky as an automatic pick, along with Pocock, so the challenge is to balance the back 3.

 

[Brumby Jack]

I'll never criticise a man who allows me to collect over $100 for scoring the first try...
Thanks Rocky!

 

[TheRiddler]

I'll never criticise a man who allows me to collect over $100 for scoring the first try...
Thanks Rocky!

Tight bastard! With him paying $20+, you obviously werent that confident

 

[Brumby Jack]

Well he wasn't the only bloke I bet on.

But it will pay for some of the Christchurch trip.

 

[Spook]

Leinster played Rocky a lot wider so he made more metres. Elsom has played tight fro the Brumbies, you never see him lurking out wide on the wing like some other forwards.

 

[Gagger]

I wasn't aware that TPN had been playing blindside flanker

 

[Spook]

So then it is meaningless to compare performance of any forwards in different positions?

 

[Ishmael]

From what I've seen, he has got stronger as the season has gone on. Those stats are hard to argue with. I think we all would like to see Rocky really stand out as a world class 6, and he's got a year or two to do that. But note that even those of us with criticisms have got Rocky as an automatic pick, along with Pocock, so the challenge is to balance the back 3.

This. I reckon Rocky will be challenging hard for Brumbies S14 player of the year in G&GR polls along with Alexander and Ashley-Cooper. He had a few quiet games when the Brumbies were playing like shite but he's been standing up when it counts all season. He's an automatic selection for the Wallabies, along with Pocock, and the only reason Higginbum's name has been thrown around is because we've lost Palu and need an extra line-busting backrower.

Speaking of which, I have to say the stats posted above remind me a lot of a certain Tongan No. 8 who's often seen in sky blue. Maybe the Rocky-to-8 theory is well founded.

 

[JJJ]

Seems like time off is the one thing Rocky doesn't need.

 

[Gagger]

So then it is meaningless to compare performance of any forwards in different positions?

Between front row and back row, yes. You think a hookers tackle count should be similar to a Flankers?

 

[waratahjesus]

So then it is meaningless to compare performance of any forwards in different positions?

Between front row and back row, yes. You think a hookers tackle count should be similar to a Flankers?

i'd like to know rockys metres gained compared to drew mitchells cos i think it would show mitchell is a better player than drew when it comes to running with the pill.

agree totally gagger, TPN has his head down, rocky is floating around the edges, hardly the same position.