• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Cooper - Good or Great rugby player - discuss.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Oldpig

Stan Wickham (3)
Firstly, I’m a great reader of this site but not a regular contributor however I feel I need some kind of therapy after last weekends events so here goes. I think enough has been said about the overall performance of our team by people far more qualified than me to comment but while reading the articles generated by these events I have come to the opinion that Quade Cooper is a good rugby player, not the great rugby player we keep hearing/reading about.

For the record I have nothing personal against him and I have never meet the guy but I feel he has been elevated into a position that is simple beyond his calling. He is a great S15 player, evident from the Reds successful season in 2011 and I’m sure he will be a star in the NRL when he decides to make the switch but as for a truly great rugby player I feel he is lacking in so many ways.

In Bob Dwyer’s View today he made reference to the lack of quality and honesty in the attack from our back line and after watching the game again last night and looking at Coopers contribution I can only agree. He is too unpredictable even for his own team mates and his ability to think on his feet and under pressure is wanting, particularly when the pressure is being applied the way it was by a very competent northern hemisphere team that played with passion, commitment and nothing to loose. Was it a great game to watch - no, did it get the results - yes for the Irish.

Many have highlighted his lack of defensive skills and inconsistency from one test to another and the fact that he is being shielded from defensive duties by moving to the wing when we are defending simply highlights these deficiencies in his game. Simply put, we are only playing with 14 when we are defending because Cooper is unreliable in a defensive role. While I didn’t see all of the Reds games this year I believe this tactic was used as well. As a comparison I believe Beale has worked on improving on his perceived weaknesses during the season but Cooper has been left to his own devises, perhaps believing he has nothing to improve on.

How he behaves off field, who he chooses to keep company with and whether he really believes he is the bad boy of the RWC is not for me to comment on. But as a keen & passionate Wallabies supporter and an old pig who still enjoys strapping on the old boots for a run each weekend I feel he is letting the team down.

Would we be better off with someone else wearing the 10 jersey right now?

PS. Please be gentle this is my first time.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I think his ability is equal to just about anyone, but his consitency is not.

As for his defence, if it is as bad as everyone says (it is poor!) then why dont teams score at will against us? If we actually were the equivilent of a 14 man team we would never win
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Maybe everyone should listen to the Matt Taylor podcast. ?He explains everything you need to know about Coopers defence.

Podcast
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
Very astute analysis Oldpig.

In answer to the last question, may I suggest Berrick Barnes, who has a wealth of experience, a level head, and would function as a foil for the mercurial talents elsewhere in that backline. Here I'm thinking of Ioane and Beale, who have more than enough x-factor without Cooper cluttering the place up.

Barnes wouldn't bag his pack every time they lost either.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
I had this discussion with my Dad a few weeks back. He's a Kiwi and doesn't think much of him. Poor defender, has brain fades, stupid crap re McCaw, Carlos Spencer, etc, etc, etc. I put in his skills are superb, he's a smart guy, and he's starting to show some generalship etc etc. I say he is young, but has it in him to be great. Dad doesn't see it. I used to be a big Carlos Spencer fan so he probably considered the whole conversation deja vu! Along comes Italy and I am saying 'see, he can control the game and be sensible'. We chat. Dad agrees but still isn't sold.

Then Ireland happens. Never underestimate the judgement of a 72 year old Kiwi who has been avidly following rugby since primary school.

But all that said, I still think Quade has it in him to be a truly great 10, one of the best. It certainly won't be this year, or maybe even next, and in fairness that's no surprise he is still pretty early in his career. I think much will depend on who he chooses to surround himself with, and who he turns to for guidance.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Good until he does something great.

We could be waiting a while, then again it could happen tomorrow. You just never know and therefore he is more than valuable.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I am not a fan of QC (Quade Cooper) as a test 5/8.
No one wins the RWC Final in a fast free flowing tryfest.
The fast and loose style (comparitively) of super 15 suits his game.
Arm wrestles and 10 man games are not his strength.
looking back over the finals of the RWC
2007 No tries
2003 1 try to each team
1999 1 try to each team
1995 no tries
1991 1 try
1987 Abs 3 tries to 1

I had hopes of Barnes playing in QC (Quade Cooper)'s place, however given QC (Quade Cooper)'s excellent form in Super 15, and BB's health issues, this has not been possible.
Barring injury, I can't see him displaced.
let's all hope he gets on a streaky run of luck and those low percentage plays come off 3 games in a row.
I doubt it will, but am ever hopeful cos that's all we are left with at this stage.
 

Oldpig

Stan Wickham (3)
Quade is to young to be classed a great player. He has the potential to be one though.
If he stays the distance, his current contract might suggest he is not in it for the long haul. So I for one would question his commitment and therefor if he the right choice, right now.
 

Cassius88

Sydney Middleton (9)
I am not a fan of QC (Quade Cooper) as a test 5/8.
No one wins the RWC Final in a fast free flowing tryfest.
The fast and loose style (comparitively) of super 15 suits his game.
Arm wrestles and 10 man games are not his strength.
looking back over the finals of the RWC
2007 No tries
2003 1 try to each team
1999 1 try to each team
1995 no tries
1991 1 try
1987 Abs 3 tries to 1

I had hopes of Barnes playing in QC (Quade Cooper)'s place, however given QC (Quade Cooper)'s excellent form in Super 15, and BB's health issues, this has not been possible.
Barring injury, I can't see him displaced.
let's all hope he gets on a streaky run of luck and those low percentage plays come off 3 games in a row.
I doubt it will, but am ever hopeful cos that's all we are left with at this stage.

My sentiments exactly. I feel that QC (Quade Cooper) has more 'X Factor', but BB is solid and consistent (when he's healthy), with the ability to make the right decisions and distribute the ball to the 'go-forward' inside backs, or the Digby/Beale's when the time is right. However, the bottom line is, we have put all our eggs in the QC (Quade Cooper) basket, and we have no choice at this stage but to watch them all break.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Obviously Barnes' chances have been dashed by missing most of the season, but my ideal Wallabies team is still Cooper at 10 and Barnes at 12.

I think they work brilliantly together as they bring a totally different style of game to the table.
 
A

antipodean

Guest
He's a mercurial talent who has demonstrated the level head to control a game through tactical kicking (something he's actually quite good at). His ability to attack the line and throw a pin point pass is brilliant. He doesn't possess the mental fortitude or experience yet to take the best option (nearly) every time. Operates best with front foot ball in broken play, but then again who doesn't?

Seems to operate in the Test environment as if it was Super Rugby, which is something a player can't do.

I can't help but surmise that he'd be in a better head space for Test rugby if the Reds hadn't hidden him in defence...
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
If he stays the distance, his current contract might suggest he is not in it for the long haul. So I for one would question his commitment and therefor if he the right choice, right now.

To his game he is full of commitment. To his future he is a young bloke who has left his options open.

It seems there are people out there who will tear strips off the bloke regardless of what he does.
 

Cassius88

Sydney Middleton (9)
To his game he is full of commitment. To his future he is a young bloke who has left his options open.

It seems there are people out there who will tear strips off the bloke regardless of what he does.

About as many as will support him no matter what he does. Equally bad in my opinion.
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
I am not a fan of QC (Quade Cooper) as a test 5/8.
No one wins the RWC Final in a fast free flowing tryfest.
The fast and loose style (comparitively) of super 15 suits his game.
Arm wrestles and 10 man games are not his strength.
looking back over the finals of the RWC
2007 No tries
2003 1 try to each team
1999 1 try to each team
1995 no tries
1991 1 try
1987 Abs 3 tries to 1

I had hopes of Barnes playing in QC (Quade Cooper)'s place, however given QC (Quade Cooper)'s excellent form in Super 15, and BB's health issues, this has not been possible.
Barring injury, I can't see him displaced.
let's all hope he gets on a streaky run of luck and those low percentage plays come off 3 games in a row.
I doubt it will, but am ever hopeful cos that's all we are left with at this stage.

Australia scored the only try in the 1999 final.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I don't think we will have a greater chance of winning this thing playing more conservatively.

We don't have the forwards to grind out matches
Yeah maybe, but it is easier to win a lineout or a scrum inside their 22 than your 22.
The backs still need to help the forwards with field position, momentum helps a lot in any game.
Having said that, I would prefer the Wobs to go down swinging, rather than the Tahs attitude of trying not to lose rather than trying to win.
 

Swat

Chilla Wilson (44)
Am I the only person who thinks JO'C should be 10?
[video=youtube;feJ62DDHmVU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feJ62DDHmVU[/video]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top