Jimmy_Crouch
Peter Johnson (47)
As I said earlier on this page sport is for those thousands who play it at an amateur level not the select few hundred professionals. Lemons
Concussions and Protecting Our Players
- Thread starter USARugger
- Start date
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I think it was to educate to kids that sport is more about participation than winning. Or something like that. Much like most clubs have done away with the ‘best player’ etc awards for these younger age groups. Also a lemon. Sport is about participation AND winning. Just like any field, only more so.
Last edited:
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
There are some pretty strong developmental arguments for it - by removing the core competitive aspect it resets focus to learning and executing skills and understanding the game, rather than winning by size which can be a massive crutch in under age contact sport where there is so much variability. Otherwise the arguments are around, participation, inclusivity and general enjoyment that help the health of a sport overall, particularly at a community/grass roots level.
The hard part in all this about working out the right age to make the change over at, because there are also plenty of benefits to proper competitive sport, particularly in a team setting.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Having been around youth rugby and league with my son for nearly 10yrs now, I’m in two minds about removing the competition aspects.
I like having the competition for the kids. IMO learning how to win and lose is one of the things that makes sport valuable for kids.
It’s the parents - supporters and coaches - who ruin it. Who take it too seriously and forget that it’s just kids.
I like having the competition for the kids. IMO learning how to win and lose is one of the things that makes sport valuable for kids.
It’s the parents - supporters and coaches - who ruin it. Who take it too seriously and forget that it’s just kids.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
^^^^^
I think these changes are the start only.
The smart move will be in trying to develop acceptable models and methods of playing.
When my son was in the U 11 I think it was, the team they were playing had this huge PI kid, given the boys lack of co-coordination and skinny frame he was in the right age bracket. He when in to tackle a boy from my son's team and was so awkward in the tackle I stress is was not a bad tackle or a tackle made with any malaise. The story is common I am sure to many, game was cancelled due the serious injury to the player from our side, I can still feel my wife's fingernails almost tearing a hole in my arm.
Next week, four boys parents withdrew their children from the team. It was only my son's stubbiness that stopped my wife withdrawing him.
I fully understand, the weight / age competition concepts but given whats know today and the often size difference between some kids change is going to happen either by our own hand were we can get some points for attempting to fix, or be forced upon us with our name dragged thu the mud, for having change forced upon us.
All sports will be effected where the head is used. I know roughly 15 to 20 years ago soccer banned heading the ball for U 12's [I think] both at training and in matches, which I think been increased to U15.
The issue is the Phil Gould's of the world need to be put back in their box. Anyone recall Gould's comments about the Newcastle Knights doctor and that the doctor did not understand RL. AFL has similar folk as well as we do.
My thoughts is we either make changes and try to be ahead of the game or fight a losing resistance to inevitable changes.
I think these changes are the start only.
The smart move will be in trying to develop acceptable models and methods of playing.
When my son was in the U 11 I think it was, the team they were playing had this huge PI kid, given the boys lack of co-coordination and skinny frame he was in the right age bracket. He when in to tackle a boy from my son's team and was so awkward in the tackle I stress is was not a bad tackle or a tackle made with any malaise. The story is common I am sure to many, game was cancelled due the serious injury to the player from our side, I can still feel my wife's fingernails almost tearing a hole in my arm.
Next week, four boys parents withdrew their children from the team. It was only my son's stubbiness that stopped my wife withdrawing him.
I fully understand, the weight / age competition concepts but given whats know today and the often size difference between some kids change is going to happen either by our own hand were we can get some points for attempting to fix, or be forced upon us with our name dragged thu the mud, for having change forced upon us.
All sports will be effected where the head is used. I know roughly 15 to 20 years ago soccer banned heading the ball for U 12's [I think] both at training and in matches, which I think been increased to U15.
The issue is the Phil Gould's of the world need to be put back in their box. Anyone recall Gould's comments about the Newcastle Knights doctor and that the doctor did not understand RL. AFL has similar folk as well as we do.
My thoughts is we either make changes and try to be ahead of the game or fight a losing resistance to inevitable changes.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
CTE is caused by repeated brain trauma, yes. The general idea is that if the traumas start at a younger age, their effects will present earlier. A quick google led me to a study which identified CTE in a 36yo who had a history of seizures and self-harm by way of repeatedly hitting his head against the wall as a child - an extreme case, but it lends weight to the above https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5491586/
Also worth remembering that CTE is only one of many neurodegenerative conditions, and traumatic brain injuries / head knocks have been long known to have adverse effects in both children and adults. Specifically with children, the issue is the the brain is still developing - a common belief was that this was actually favourable, as the brain still had a high level of plasticity and was able to adapt, but more contemporary research suggests this might not be the case.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
Some interesting discussions being head around the use of 'Guardian Caps' in the NFL (effectively headgear over a typical helmet)
www.nbcsports.com
scopeblog.stanford.edu
NFL says positions wearing Guardian Caps saw 52% decrease in concussions
The NFL says Guardian Caps are working.
www.nbcsports.com
Padded helmet cover shows little protection for football players
A foam cap that fits over football helmets seemed to reduce the force of blows in lab experiments — but not on the field.
scopeblog.stanford.edu
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
There's a pretty good chance we'll see concussion stand down periods move to 21 days in the next year or two off the back of the senate inquiry:
www.theguardian.com
Sporting codes could face mandatory return-to-play protocols, including 21 days out, after concussions
Senate inquiry recommends national strategy and binding return-to-play rules to protect against head trauma
www.theguardian.com
Tex
Greg Davis (50)
The only viable way forward is for international agreement, not country-by-country regulation.
The women's football world cup saw vastly different treatment of head knocks across competing nations. Left to each national body to manage, we'll have the progressive risk managers being forced to act while pragmatic others continue with the status quo.
Perhaps there are strict rules around contact at training, continued focus on points of contact in games, and even a cultural and legal 'contract' that acknowledges the clear risk of lifelong injuries that can occur from the sport.
Dementia pugilisitica was described in 1928 and while boxing is arguably a shadow of its former selves, it's still here and commanding big money and focus from sporting media and fans.
The women's football world cup saw vastly different treatment of head knocks across competing nations. Left to each national body to manage, we'll have the progressive risk managers being forced to act while pragmatic others continue with the status quo.
Perhaps there are strict rules around contact at training, continued focus on points of contact in games, and even a cultural and legal 'contract' that acknowledges the clear risk of lifelong injuries that can occur from the sport.
Dementia pugilisitica was described in 1928 and while boxing is arguably a shadow of its former selves, it's still here and commanding big money and focus from sporting media and fans.
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
Take him out of the oven. He’s done
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
Community, youth sport to introduce 21-day concussion stand-down
Adults playing in non-elite sport will join children in being sidelined for a mandatory three weeks if they suffer a concussion.
- Adults in community sport and children aged 19 and under will be sidelined for a minimum of 21 days if they suffer a sport-related concussion, under new guidelines released by the Australian Institute of Sport.
- The Youth and Community Sport guidelines, which effectively cover everyone in sport outside elite levels, have been created to provide “simplicity and clarity” about the widely varied protocols used in Australian sport for a safe return to play after a concussion.
- The AIS advice for children aged 19 and under to not resume contact training until they’ve been symptom-free for 14 days will also apply to adults in community sport. It mirrors protocols established in the UK last year, and the AIS worked with British and New Zealand counterparts to align their positions.
- With no regulatory power, the AIS advice remains just that, but the national bodies of more than 30 sports have already indicated they will adopt the new guidelines. Sports currently have a wide array of stand-down protocols, mostly set around 12 days.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
Nice to formally get some blanket guidance.Community, youth sport to introduce 21-day concussion stand-down
Adults playing in non-elite sport will join children in being sidelined for a mandatory three weeks if they suffer a concussion.www.smh.com.au
- Adults in community sport and children aged 19 and under will be sidelined for a minimum of 21 days if they suffer a sport-related concussion, under new guidelines released by the Australian Institute of Sport.
- The Youth and Community Sport guidelines, which effectively cover everyone in sport outside elite levels, have been created to provide “simplicity and clarity” about the widely varied protocols used in Australian sport for a safe return to play after a concussion.
- The AIS advice for children aged 19 and under to not resume contact training until they’ve been symptom-free for 14 days will also apply to adults in community sport. It mirrors protocols established in the UK last year, and the AIS worked with British and New Zealand counterparts to align their positions.
- With no regulatory power, the AIS advice remains just that, but the national bodies of more than 30 sports have already indicated they will adopt the new guidelines. Sports currently have a wide array of stand-down protocols, mostly set around 12 days.
I sincerely hope this doesn't limit willingness to flag/diagnose a concussion - the implications of a 3wk stand down for shorter competitions (e.g., a school term) are pretty large.
LevitatingSocks
Alfred Walker (16)
It absolutely does for my own willingness to admit to symptoms as someone who still plays.
The worst part is that I should know better given my past history of concussions and occupation. But I'm an adult that's capable of understanding the risks long-term. It's different for kids.
I'm not questioning the integrity of anyone working the sidelines, but my feeling is that in an ideal world evaluations should be done by personnel employed by leagues and not individual schools or clubs.
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
Correct, the ideal world situation is that - but we can't even get that happening in professional competitions across a number of sports.
The unfortunate reality is there will be coaches of junior teams who don't believe they can lose their best player for 3 weeks and will make sure their players and runners also understand this.
Education for parents/supporters is the best thing we can do right now. Clubs should ensure all of these guidelines are communicated via email at the start of the season and openly discussed at training and club forums.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Also not an expert but I expect that shaking a brain around in its skull is bad, period.
LevitatingSocks
Alfred Walker (16)
Pretty bang on, CTE is more a function of accumulating a large amount of sub-concussive impacts. You could never sustain a major concussion and still get CTE if you're taking shots to the head on a regular basis. Rotational acceleration in particular is really bad for the brain as it puts a shearing force on structures.
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
I think we see less come from the junior ranks because of the lack of force in most contact. The area kids are most at risk is the head clash, poor technique or the whiplash effect into the ground as they don't have the neck strength to control it. Neck strengthening is a big focus in a lot of MMA and Boxing training.
I also have no idea if this has any scientific backing but I think some people are also very susceptible to concussion over others. Almost as if they are allergic for lack of a better term. A guy like Will Pucovski from Cricket comes to mind. Wouldn't it be good if they could figure this out and tell some people you should not be involved in contact sport.
I know it also seems to become easier for someone to get concussed after multiple but is this from not properly recovering which also seems to be different from person to person?
I also have no idea if this has any scientific backing but I think some people are also very susceptible to concussion over others. Almost as if they are allergic for lack of a better term. A guy like Will Pucovski from Cricket comes to mind. Wouldn't it be good if they could figure this out and tell some people you should not be involved in contact sport.
I know it also seems to become easier for someone to get concussed after multiple but is this from not properly recovering which also seems to be different from person to person?