Comparing the financial value of S14/NRL/AFL clubs

[TOCC]

Unsure of whether this has been done before, but it highlights some rather interesting and disturbing facts... All these figures are from the 2009 Annual Reports.

QRU
Revenue: 16'990'617(down from $18'900'000)
Grants/Sponsorship: 11,779,690
Gate: 2,485,873
Corporate: 1,206,210
Profit/Loss: (3,142,248 )

RugbyWA
Revenue: 17,537,242 (down from 20,463,265)
Commercial: 12,448,387
Grants: 4,839,999
Profit/Loss: (728,842)


NSW
Revenue: 21,016,242 (down from $25,884,000)
Sponsorship: 5,103,979
Grants: 8,359,283
Corporate: 623,974
Gate: 3,903,194
Profit/Loss: (1,883,767)

Brisbane Broncos
Revenue: 27,730,000 (up from 27,409,000)
Commercial: 21,000,000
Grants: 3,450,000
Profit/Loss: 1,432,000

Collingwood FC
Revenue: 62,702,193 (up from 62,611,192)
Social club and gaming: 22,748,231
Membership: 9,582,383
AFL distributions and match returns: 10,315,988
Marketing and sponsorship: 15,113,000
Pie in the Sky travel: 4,564,278 (4,370,000 in expenses)
Profit/Loss: 594,061

 

[RugbyReg]

yeah, but its apples and oranges. The QRU is responsible for:
- development of rugby players in QLD from Border to border from 5 to 65 (etc)
- ref development for all of those games
- management of all the games those players play in
- the QLD Reds, the QLD Academy team and all QLD rep teams (to some degree)
- Premier Rugby competition
- marketing and promotion of the sport across the state
- etc

Brisbane Broncos are responsible for:
- the Brisbane Broncos

Collingwood FC are responsible for:
- Collingwood FC.

 

[Moses]

Interesting how Broncos and Collingwood both increased revenue during the GFC.

Noddy, I agree the state unions have far greater responsibilities than the other codes, which makes this even tougher with smaller revenues.

 

[Gagger]

It's Robbie Deans' fault

 

[Reddy!]

It's Robbie Deans' fault

Certainly isn't the 2010 QLD Reds fault!

 

[RedsHappy]

It's Robbie Deans' fault

TOCC, painful as the truth may be, you do us a big favour by posting this. More to say tomorrow. Meanwhile, go buy this weekend's Australian Financial Review, see the magazine inside, see "Rugby's Journey to Hell". Anyone who thinks this subject is funny, lives in a world of delusion.

 

[cyclopath]

Certainly isn't the 2010 QLD Reds fault!

Especially since they are 2009 figures...:
Can you try not turning every thread into a Qld paranoia session?

 

[TOCC]

I initially started this to compare the Australian S14 clubs, but then I figured some genius would ask "I wonder how this compares to other codes"....

So I probably shouldn't have put in the AFL and NRL figures, but what it does is highlights how underwhelming the QRU's performance had been, additionally how well RugbyWA has performed in terms of building revenue.

 

[farva]

What are the costs like? AFL teams have much bigger rosters. But then they have far less travel to worry about. Collingwood especially only really travel 3 or 4 times a year, and then its only as far as Perth or Brisbane.

But also not taken into account is the ARU. They contract many of the players to a central contract, meaning that the individual unions can keep player payments right down. In the AFL, the clubs are soley responsible for player payments, so they have the full deal. Also, third party payments are a part of rugby, but these arent seen in AFL - hidden revenue.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Would be interesting to see the financial statements from some of the less popular NRL/AFL teams.

Collingwood is very well supported across the country in terms of memberships and social club. However a 0.6m profit on 63m revenue seems a bit slim, although profit no matter how slim, is a much better outcome than a loss.

I am sure that there are some AFL Franchises which are really battling. Rumour has it that there are NRL clubs very close to the wall.

Broncos is not a particularly representative example of a typical NRL Franchise.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

.... snip ...
.
In the AFL, the clubs are soley responsible for player payments, so they have the full deal. Also, third party payments are a part of rugby, but these arent seen in AFL - hidden revenue.

Not entirely true. There are apparently several examples where players are being paid for professional services by third parties with apparent AFL Blessing. Regardless of the AFL blessing of these arrangements, many would claim that these appear to be quite thinly disguised attempts to rort the Salary cap. For example Chris Judd (Carlton) is apparently paid quite handsomely as an environmental advisor to a company who's CEO is closely associated with Carlton. It is reported that Mr Judd does not have any particular expertise or tertiary credentials as an environmental analyst.

 

[cyclopath]

There are problems comparing different codes, but nonetheless the figures are disturbing from a rugby perspective. AFL is in something of a microcosm with its huge Vic / SA / WA and modest NSW / Qld following as icing on a nice cake. It will be interesting to see if the S15 boosts the revenues significantly for the Rugby franchises.

 

[Moses]

Not entirely true. There are apparently several examples where players are being paid for professional services by third parties with apparent AFL Blessing. Regardless of the AFL blessing of these arrangements, many would claim that these appear to be quite thinly disguised attempts to rort the Salary cap. For example Chris Judd (Carlton) is apparently paid quite handsomely as an environmental advisor to a company who's CEO is closely associated with Carlton. It is reported that Mr Judd does not have any particular expertise or tertiary credentials as an environmental analyst.

He's the "environmental ambassador" for Visy, the sponsors of Tah Man. Sounds like a pretty good fit, it's a marketing / PR gig and he's got the profile to pull it off.
http://www.visy.com.au/sponsorship/?page=Environmental_Ambassador

 

[cyclopath]

He's the "environmental ambassador" for Visy, the sponsors of Tah Man. Sounds like a pretty good fit, it's a marketing / PR gig and he's got the profile to pull it off.
http://www.visy.com.au/sponsorship/?page=Environmental_Ambassador

So he has a keen interest in cardboard?

 

[#1 Tah]

I reccon we should try and get the books back into black before we start comparing with other codes.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I initially started this to compare the Australian S14 clubs, but then I figured some genius would ask "I wonder how this compares to other codes"....

So I probably shouldn't have put in the AFL and NRL figures, but what it does is highlights how underwhelming the QRU's performance had been, additionally how well RugbyWA has performed in terms of building revenue.

Without meaning to drag the dialogue into an Anti-QLD one, the QRU revenues do not support the "powerhouse" status of QRU within the ARU.
I am quite surprised as the WA revenue figures. Is this coming from expat Saffers? Rumour has it that there is a fairly large expat community over there.

What are the junior player numbers like in the west?
How soon before we start to see consistent "high quality" players coming from the west?
I saw that there was a prop at this years Aust Schools Champs from the WA team that received great wraps from our correspondents.

 

[Ruggo]

Forget the broncos, look at the QRL and NSWRL.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Without meaning to drag the dialogue into an Anti-QLD one, the QRU revenues do not support the "powerhouse" status of QRU within the ARU.
I am quite surprised as the WA revenue figures. Is this coming from expat Saffers? Rumour has it that there is a fairly large expat community over there.

What are the junior player numbers like in the west?
How soon before we start to see consistent "high quality" players coming from the west?
I saw that there was a prop at this years Aust Schools Champs from the WA team that received great wraps from our correspondents.

The expat community is huge over here. You ought to see the amount of Saffers at S14 games and tests. Mining and agriculture are big industries in WA and also in parts of RSA, so it's natural for the Saffer community to be fairly large here (my Stormers supporting neighbour is one). A lot of Kiwis here too. Aussie rules people hugely underestimate the level of interest in the game in these parts.

In terms of juniors, in comparison to my time playing junior footy in the 80's to now, the game has come on heaps. It's only a matter of time before the club system here consistently produces Super rugby quality players. Back in the day they had to go to Sydney to get noticed, like a bloke who played at University the same time as me: John Wellborn.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Would be interesting to see the financial statements from some of the less popular NRL/AFL teams.

Collingwood is very well supported across the country in terms of memberships and social club. However a 0.6m profit on 63m revenue seems a bit slim, although profit no matter how slim, is a much better outcome than a loss.

I am sure that there are some AFL Franchises which are really battling. Rumour has it that there are NRL clubs very close to the wall.

Broncos is not a particularly representative example of a typical NRL Franchise.

Quite true. There have been several AFL clubs on the brink of extinction in the last decade, so it aint all rosy there. Even my own club Carlton had huge financial troubles on account of salary cap rorts, the consequences of which nearly finished them.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A three way State of the Union Comp - Qld vs NSW vs ACT/WA combined would be an exciting prospect.