Cheetahs vs Waratahs - 2011R05

[Blue]

I would note, for all its irrelevance, that the ref was awful tonight. The Tahs got screwed, especially on the offsides and one-pass penalty advantages. Not that they deserved any better, but the ref was the only thing as shit as the Tahs tonight.

Utter claptrap sourgraped bullshit.

 

[lincoln]

Reminiscent of the 1973 FA Cup final. Very disappointed with Dean Mumm - lacked mental/physical toughness and single handedly destroyed the confidence of Ulugia with back of lineout calls when the guy was clearly struggling - not a good captain's outing.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I have an issue with senior Aus coaches playing around with the positions of their backline personnel.

Looking at the Tahs backline it seemed to me that only Burgess and Carter were playing in positions they had specialised in alll their colts and senior careers. No surprise that they got MOM points in the tough games against Crusaders and Cheetahs. Picking a winger at OC or a pivot at fullback or an inside centre at pivot or fullback at winger can work against a weak opposition, but when the competition is tough the problems escalate exponentially. It is not just the Tahs- think of Giteau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Vuna, Huxley and Ioane.

Would a S15 coach put Waugh in at THP because of injury? No, because it takes years to "learn the trade". I think Aus coaches forget this theory when it comes to the backline. Carter is a good IC when we are either winning or losing because he has the 'instincts' of an IC that he has devolped over years.

The Tahs were at their best when the outside backs were running off great balls and holes produced by Carter and Horne, both long time centres. Their defensive patterns were also very good.

Surely, by the time a player reaches S15 standard he is established in one position.

 

[whatty]

I am still unconvinced the last Cheetahs try was legit with the crawling and all, but so what?

As I see it the cheetahs player was already on his knees before the Tahs player touched him. So held in tackle does not count. He only tried to stop him in his movement towards the goal line.

 

[Spewn]

Boo-frikkin-hoo... A bunch of soft upper class numpties from NSW lose and rugby in Australia is cactus?

Are you really that insular?

Not sure what you mean by insular. Are you saying I think Australian rugby is limited to said NSW numpties? Far from it pal. Thats my point. Said numpties also get into Wallabies and hence they are soft. By the way, as a QLDer i enjoyed the loss if only as a kick in the pants to the Tahs players. And by the way, There is no such thing as an upper class in Australia.

 

[Parra GM]

Right here!

Australia teams really need to lose their arrogance and front up week after week. Tags thought they could just show up and win. Like the brumbies against the rebels. Check your egos and do the work.

The only team that's impressed me this year has been the force.

Amen to that

 

[Parra GM]

I took a mate to try and get him into it. this is his second game. first was last years reds v tahs match at anz stadium.

your mate will NEVER be back

 

[Slim 293]

The only team that's impressed me this year has been the force.

The Force have been consistent.

But not impressive.

 

[Parra GM]

Yes, but those poor suckers in the NSW coaching box will have to do just that.

Wonder how good the spray from Foles to Douglas et al wouldve been last night!

 

[waratahjesus]

what was the game against the crusaders then?

the game against the crusaders is a game against the crusaders, it was a loss, the lack of goalkicking made the score blow out much worse than it was. but the crusaders have been and still are on a level above the tahs, as they are the rest of the competition, there are going to be alot of teams the saders destroy this year.

 

[Langthorne]

The Tahs highlight the nonsense that is rushing schoolboys into the big league without doing a tough apprenticeship. How Fitzpatrick or McCutcheon get ahead of tougher campaigners is beyond me. Big reputation at schoolboy level, straight into the academy or the ridiculous 7s pathway and then unravel with the rest of them against some tough no frills south africans (or kiwis). What's the point of club football.

So do you have a problem with Fitzpatrick and McCutcheon specifically, or is the problem any successful schoolboy player coming directly into Super rugby? That you have said "reputation" would seem to suggest you don't even believe they were very good when at school. Do you have some additional information or insight you'd like to share?

Fitzpatrick actually replaced a seasoned campaigner when he came on, and performed better (which wouldn't be hard). McCutcheon had one BIG screw up in dropping the ball with the tryline open, but he wasn't worse than most of the older and more experienced players around him.

There are plenty of young guys doing pretty well too, even those not long out of school (some of them playing for South African and New Zealand teams).

In the case of Fitzpatrick, I'm pretty impressed with the way he played, considering how badly he has been handled by the super coach Chris Hickey - putting in a random journeyman ahead of your reserve hooker will hardly fill the young guy with confidence will it? Either Hickey should start him or get rid of him altogether.

The Cheetahs never say die defence was what won it for them. They strangled the Waratahs long enough for the desperation (Barnes cross field kick etc) and mistakes to kick in (well the mistakes were pretty much a constant).

 

[cyclopath]

As I see it the cheetahs player was already on his knees before the Tahs player touched him. So held in tackle does not count. He only tried to stop him in his movement towards the goal line.

So theoretically he could just keep crawling along as much as he likes, unable to be tackled as he's already on the ground (that'd be a penalty), not having to release the ball as he isn't being tackled. Baffles me why players don't just crawl around all day, immune to the other laws of rugby. Oh, that's right, it supposed to be a game played on your feet!

 

[Spewn]

So do you have a problem with Fitzpatrick and McCutcheon specifically, or is the problem any successful schoolboy player coming directly into Super rugby? That you have said "reputation" would seem to suggest you don't even believe they were very good when at school. Do you have some additional information or insight you'd like to share?

I am using them as examples of what I think is wrong with the system. They were great schoolboy players. I can recall seeing Fitzpatrick play against the CHS 1s up at Knox and thinking how good he was. And he was great as the schoolboy captain. But I don't think he has been much good at senior level. Same goes with McCutcheon watching him going round with Betham and Afusipa. I would much prefer that young players not go into an academy or a 7s pathway. They should compete in a competition where they have to face decent physical challenges week in week out. A big reputation at school counts for little afterwards but puts these boys ahead of others and shrinks the pool of players the wise ones at the ARU or the franchises think are any good. The problem is identifying the competition they should be in. Club, the ARC, a super under20s competition????

 

[ChargerWA]

Oh well Tahs fans, cheer up. It can only get better from here. When Waugh and TPN come back you will be in better shape. I still expect the Tahs to top the Aus conference.

 

[whatty]

So theoretically he could just keep crawling along as much as he likes, unable to be tackled as he's already on the ground (that'd be a penalty), not having to release the ball as he isn't being tackled. Baffles me why players don't just crawl around all day, immune to the other laws of rugby. Oh, that's right, it supposed to be a game played on your feet!

That is fairly simplistic argument. He did not get tackled to the ground he tripped then dived for the try line. myself and your Aussie commentators would appear to agree agree.
The penalty you refer to is diving on the player in them collecting a kick eg.

 

[fatprop]

I have an issue with senior Aus coaches playing around with the positions of their backline personnel.

Looking at the Tahs backline it seemed to me that only Burgess and Carter were playing in positions they had specialised in alll their colts and senior careers. No surprise that they got MOM points in the tough games against Crusaders and Cheetahs. Picking a winger at OC or a pivot at fullback or an inside centre at pivot or fullback at winger can work against a weak opposition, but when the competition is tough the problems escalate exponentially. It is not just the Tahs- think of Giteau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Vuna, Huxley and Ioane.

Bullocks, where players played as colts or at the beginning of their senior careers has nothing where they often end up.

Here are a couple of players that changed spots and did OK

Larkham
Richard Harry
Gerrard
Beale
Mortlock
Lynagh

 

[rugbysmartarse]

As much as anything I was a bit pissed that we didn't take Alcock into the 22. He is a strong and talented player who needs more time on the park. Timani is big, but his handling is woeful and he hadn't made any greatbimpactvwhen used. Considering we had a lock on the bench already in Dennis I'm not sure why we didn't have open side cover, especially against brussow.

 

[cyclopath]

That is fairly simplistic argument. He did not get tackled to the ground he tripped then dived for the try line. myself and your Aussie commentators would appear to agree agree.
The penalty you refer to is diving on the player in them collecting a kick eg.

It's called hyperbole. It is not uncommon for crawling players in that situation to be penalised.
And your last point is wrong - you are not allowed to dive on a player in possession on the ground at all, whether they collect a kick or just fall over with the ball. You may contest the ball, which they are obliged to release if you are on your feet and they are not.
I'm pleased you think Marto and Kearns are authorities on the laws. They hide it well at times.

 

[Lindommer]

You'd (ie, NSWRU and NSW rugby supporters) have to be unhappy with the turn out at the SFS tonight, I doubt they would've filled Coogee Oval. An embarrassment to NSW rugby.

To be fair to potential spectators it was raining all afternoon in greater Sydney (pissed down at both Concord Oval and in the Blue Mountains) amd it was only the Cheetahs. The two weaker SAf sides never draw any sort of a crowd in Sydney.

 

[Reddy!]

the game against the crusaders is a game against the crusaders, it was a loss, the lack of goalkicking made the score blow out much worse than it was. but the crusaders have been and still are on a level above the tahs, as they are the rest of the competition, there are going to be alot of teams the saders destroy this year.

Then what is the point of the Waratahs? They may as well pack it in and disband if they are just in the competition to make up numbers and not be the best. Come on, they pride themselves on being the best in Australia - they would wanna fucking be competitive against the Crusaders.