Cheap shot / smart move by Henry

[Gagger]

I wonder who he could be referring to? :nta: Not sure it's Wales....

From http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12333_6209118,00.html

Henry demands better scrum

All Black coach calls for improvement up front


Henry: Imrovement

We were okay on our own ball but we did not break them apart, I thought that was rather disappointing. I did not think we were as potent at scrum time as we should have been.

New Zealand's forwards need to show a big improvement for Saturday's opening Test against Wales according to coach Graham Henry.
Henrysaid his side's scrummaging was 'one of the disappointments' during the All Black's 66-28 demolition of Ireland last week.
"We were okay on our own ball but we did not break them apart," he said. "I thought that was rather disappointing.
"I did not think we were as potent at scrum time as we should have been, particularly when they only had seven."


Speaking to reporter in Dunedin ahead of Saturday's game the former Wales boss also sent out a blunt message for the visiting pack and Irish referee George Clancy
Henry said the All Blacks had been hampered by opponents not wanting to scrum during last year's autumn series in Europe and called on Clancy to ensure that the scrums would be a fair contest.


"It's a difficult part of the game and quite often some teams don't want to scrum," He said.

"They adjust their technique so that the penalties are even and the game becomes a shambles because one of the teams doesn't want to scrum, which I find exceptionally irritating because it ruins the game.

"When we play the Springboks and when we play the French it's a good game because both sides want to scrum."

New rules governing scrum engagement were introduced last November and front row Adam Jones

says it is simply a matter of getting to grips with them quickly.
The Wales and Ospreys tight-head prop is confident that the changes will help improve the game as a spectacle


"I think they are going to hold the pause a bit longer so you can't pre-empt it and that's good," said Jon.
"I think whoever is out quickest on the engage is going to have an advantage."
"You've got to do these things to help the game. Even if I'm watching a game and I see scrums collapsing it still gets frustrating.



You don't want thousands of scrums re-set. If you want that you just watch England play, don't you?" :lmao:



Wales go into the clash without the likes of Martyn Williams,

James Hook,

Shane Williams

and Tom Shanklin.

But Jones feels Wales are confident even though they have not beaten the All Blacks since 1953.
"We are missing about six players who are pretty vital for us," he added "But the boys who are going to come in are going to come in without any fear
"Everyone is pretty confident so hopefully we'll give them a pretty good run for their money."

 

[Lee Grant]

Henry

"It's a difficult part of the game and quite often some teams don't want to scrum," He said.

"They adjust their technique so that the penalties are even and the game becomes a shambles because one of the teams doesn't want to scrum, which I find exceptionally irritating because it ruins the game.

The Ireland scrum is no great shakes but Henry could have been talking about the Oz scrum. I don't blame him for having those thoughts and I'm surprised that Pom coach Johnson hasn't said something similar.

Some say that the Poms were just as guilty in not binding correctly but the vibe I go was that Oz was allowed to get away with rugby murder in Perth by referee Owen. For example: his command to the Pom scrummie to get the ball out before the scrum collapsed was incorrect though he could probably get away with it in a court of law by pleading safety.

The superior scrum is allowed to keep a playable ball in a scrum and the Poms were entitled to drive the scrum forward. If Oz was culpable again the Poms would have been entitled to more sanctions against them.

Referee Romain Poite is a known hard head who uses few words. He won't be worrying about his assessor marking him down for having a low completed scrum count as Owens appeared to be.

 

[Gagger]

I think it's pretty clear he's talking about our scrum, and he wants every ref and official to hear it.

Leaving all the for or against Dingo as a coach stuff to one side, it's a pretty frikken poor show when a top three nation can't or won't field a front row to keep up a scrum.

 

[Scarfman]

Lee - what if the scrum is stable? Ie, they're not going forward? Surely it's against the rules to keep the ball in there?

 

[Scarfman]

By the way: either Henry is the greatest diplomat of all time, or the referee body listens to him more than other coaches/nations. He seems to be able to set the agenda (weak scrums vs lying over the ball, for example).

 

[Thomond78]

See, I seem to remember the Italians wanting to scrum last November in Milan.

In fact, I remember them wanting to scrum so much that they were bloody robbed of a penalty try for kicking the AB's arses for them. And then Henry running sobbing to Paddy O'Braindead, who came out, sprayed Dickinson and then had to apologise for being stone-cold wrong.

I also remember that last week, against a seven-man scrum, with Healy, who's a bad scrummager, a 24-yr-old newbie hooker and Mushy Buckley, who's gash as a scrummager, they not only couldn't go forward, but went backwards at time.

So, frankly, Graham, stop the bullshit. Because when teams do turn up wanting to scrum, you run sobbing to mummy/Paddy to make sure the nasty big hairy boys stop doing that to your lot.

 

[Scotty]

Lee - what if the scrum is stable? Ie, they're not going forward? Surely it's against the rules to keep the ball in there?

Which is what happened after Slipper moved to tight head, and just before their penalty try. The first scrum Slipper moved was rock solid, and the English couldn't move it so ended up driving in on the angle, and collapsed the scrum. Instead of Oz getting a penalty for illegal England scrumming tatics, the ref ordered a reset, and the scrum after they won the hit and ended up wining a very dubious penalty try. I have no issue with the dominant scrum being awarded the majority of the penalties, but the ref still has to use his eyes rather than just assuming who is at fault.

 

[Thomond78]

Yeah, well, Scotty, let me put it this way; don't expect that from Random Putain if he's reffing ye. Because by God is he a sucker for received opinions and the idea that if you hit at any angle you feel like, that means you're dominant.

He's an awful, awful ref, lads. And will not do your blood-pressure any good at all.

 

[cyclopath]

Yeah, well, Scotty, let me put it this way; don't expect that from Random Putain if he's reffing ye. Because by God is he a sucker for received opinions and the idea that if you hit at any angle you feel like, that means you're dominant.

He's an awful, awful ref, lads. And will not do your blood-pressure any good at all.

Thanks for the heads up, Thomo. I am already meditating in the Lotus position in an attempt to keep apoplexy at bay come Saturday. I do not hold high hopes that I will succeed.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

See, I seem to remember the Italians wanting to scrum last November in Milan.

In fact, I remember them wanting to scrum so much that they were bloody robbed of a penalty try for kicking the AB's arses for them. And then Henry running sobbing to Paddy O'Braindead, who came out, sprayed Dickinson and then had to apologise for being stone-cold wrong.

I also remember that last week, against a seven-man scrum, with Healy, who's a bad scrummager, a 24-yr-old newbie hooker and Mushy Buckley, who's gash as a scrummager, they not only couldn't go forward, but went backwards at time.

So, frankly, Graham, stop the bullshit. Because when teams do turn up wanting to scrum, you run sobbing to mummy/Paddy to make sure the nasty big hairy boys stop doing that to your lot.

Still a bit bitter over getting humped are we T78? Incredibly immature comments which are below yourself.

Point 1. I don't see him quoting anything about Europe there. The Italy game ended up as a farce & you could look at either side to draw a conclustion
Point 2. For a lawyer, you seem completley unable to understand that that is exactly what GH is saying. He was disappointed in the AB scrum & agree's with your middle points.
Point 3. As he agreed with you, this comment is just ridiculous.

The rest of the comments are clear, that he's not happy about teams putting out front rows who they know can't compete as its' ruining the game. Pretty clear who that's directed at I think.

If you ask me, the more spiteful comments seem to be from Adam Jones - especially the little comment about England.

I actually hate it when Henry comments on anything these days, as he's usually got some good stuff to say. But he's always seems to just create controversy. Which is a shame.

 

[Lee Grant]

Lee - what if the scrum is stable? Ie, they're not going forward? Surely it's against the rules to keep the ball in there?

They're allowed to settle some preparing for a drive but they can't try to hatch the ball in there which some teams do to run down the clock. This is time-wasting under the Foul Play law and can be penalised.

Alternatively, if the ball isn't coming out and the scrum is stationary the referee is supposed to order another scrum with the put in going to the team that did not have possession in the scrum. This means the team that did not put the ball in before, unless they had the ball on their side of the scrum and were heading to get a tight head.

Whatever the laws say, the convention is that the dominant scrum is allowed to muller the other team and are given a chance to set up for a drive, much as a tackled player is given a few seconds to dispose of the ball though the law says immediately. Owens denied the Poms the chance to let their scrum drive when the Oz scrum was in extremis yet again, and get the benefit from further sanctions against Oz when they infringed.

 

[Thomond78]

Just for Majorly Ragerly:

Henry said the All Blacks had been hampered by 1) opponents 2) not wanting to scrum 3) during last year's autumn series in Europe and called on Clancy to ensure that the scrums would be a fair contest.

Looks like him whining about European teams, and blaming it all on them rather than the ABs to me. Because, well, that's what it is.

See it now...?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Just for Majorly Ragerly:
Looks like him whining about European teams, and blaming it all on them rather than the ABs to me. Because, well, that's what it is.

See it now...?

I saw that, but there is no direct quote on it from him. I think the journo came to that conclustion because it seemed clear to me that the dig was at Australia. Besides, that p.o.v doesn't make any sense given one of the teams we played on last years EOYT was France.

Anyway, still doesn't explain why the majority of your post is agreeing with GH, but you still choose to be upset.

 

[Thomond78]

I saw that, but there is no direct quote on it from him. I think the journo came to that conclustion because it seemed clear to me that the dig was at Australia. Besides, that p.o.v doesn't make any sense given one of the teams we played on last years EOYT was France.

Anyway, still doesn't explain why the majority of your post is agreeing with GH, but you still choose to be upset.

Because, as you point out, GH's point of view makes no sense. He's whining, trying to say that the ABs are super-scrummagers, only here to play the game, ref, whine, whinge, bitch; and the reason he's doing it is, Adam Jones is a lovely technical tighthead - which GH, who was involved in Wales in the past, remember, knows full well, as does Steve Hansen.

GH is talking utter balls, and is doing it to try and manipulate the reffing. Clancy is also a young ref, newly on the full IRB panel, and with the memory around all the refs still fresh of what happens when GH goes whinging to Paddy O'Brian about other teams being all nasty and whupping the ABs at the scrum, he's vulnerable to it.

It's trying to put the squeeze on the ref, by spreading a line of utter bullshit. It's the sort of thing Lord Bald would do, and it's not on.

I'll see if I can dig out direct quotes, but given things are a bit frantic at the moment, we'll see.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Because, as you point out, GH's point of view makes no sense. He's whining, trying to say that the ABs are super-scrummagers, only here to play the game, ref, whine, whinge, bitch; and the reason he's doing it is, Adam Jones is a lovely technical tighthead - which GH, who was involved in Wales in the past, remember, knows full well, as does Steve Hansen.

GH is talking utter balls, and is doing it to try and manipulate the reffing. Clancy is also a young ref, newly on the full IRB panel, and with the memory around all the refs still fresh of what happens when GH goes whinging to Paddy O'Brian about other teams being all nasty and whupping the ABs at the scrum, he's vulnerable to it.

It's trying to put the squeeze on the ref, by spreading a line of utter bullshit. It's the sort of thing Lord Bald would do, and it's not on.

I'll see if I can dig out direct quotes, but given things are a bit frantic at the moment, we'll see.

But again, your putting words in his mouth which he didn't say. He NEVER said we were superior scrummers - he said he was disappointed in how they went against the Irish, where as you point out, they didn't dominate, where he had hoped they would.

Remember, GHs p.o.v makes no sense if he did indeed say on the European trip - which I don't believe he would have, because every man and his dog knows Europe has more emphasis on scrums than the SH (including NZ). I agree with Gagger/Lee that it's a clear dig at Australia.

You can't beleive everything a journo writes, which is why I'm skeptical. Happy to be proven wrong though (well not happily, but if I am, I am).

 

[Scarfman]

Either way, it's part of the modern rugby coach's job to put pressure on refs. Henry goes beyond that - as I said - he sets the agenda for what gets talked about. Personally, I think he has some talent at it, so good on him, but also the current referee set-up is biased towards NZ and I'm very much looking forward to POB's retirement / sacking / burning at the stake so that Watson can take over.

 

[PaarlBok]

You can't beleive everything a journo writes, which is why I'm skeptical. Happy to be proven wrong though (well not happily, but if I am, I am).

Got a hiding in the past for qouting this regarding Snor. He call a spade a spade, Henry a grumping two face bastard tho. Say what you want to say and get it over and done.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Got a hiding in the past for qouting this regarding Snor. He call a spade a spade, Henry a grumping two face bastard tho. Say what you want to say and get it over and done.

Paarl - you can't be serious. PdV has said some seriously random things and been dragged over the coals for it. Henry is certainly grumpy, why do you think he's two faced?

 

[Scorz]

Either way, it's part of the modern rugby coach's job to put pressure on refs. Henry goes beyond that - as I said - he sets the agenda for what gets talked about. Personally, I think he has some talent at it, so good on him, but also the current referee set-up is biased towards NZ and I'm very much looking forward to POB's retirement / sacking / burning at the stake so that Watson can take over.

Pah! The same Paddy O'Braindead who named his NAMBLA kid Barnes as ref for the showdown in Cardiff? Most Kiwi's are looking forward to his demise too! Especially when he told us to "grow up" when NZer's were pissed off about Barnes. We get 5/8th's of FA favour from that fucking cock.

 

[DPK]

IMO Barnes is a good ref.