Changes to the scoring of kicks at goal to be trialled

[Slim 293]

The object of the game is to score more points than the other team...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current points system...

That was a widely held view when tries were worth 0.

 

[Slim 293]

I get it.

Game evolves over time.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current points system.

And reducing the amount of points for a penalty doesn't fix inconsistent refereeing, but rather invites more cynical infringements.

There are other parts of the game that need to be tweaked. For example, the the way the breakdown is refereed needs to return to how it was last year with more advantage given to the attacking team, and the idea of cutting out the hit in scrums to reduce collapses has a lot of merit.

But I don't see the point of trying to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Slim 293]

Thankfully, like the ELVs this will not get picked up.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I get it.

Game evolves over time.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current points system.

And reducing the amount of points for a penalty doesn't fix inconsistent refereeing, but rather invites more cynical infringements.

There are other parts of the game that need to be tweaked. For example, the the way the breakdown is refereed needs to return to how it was last year with more advantage given to the attacking team, and the idea of cutting out the hit in scrums to reduce collapses has a lot of merit.

But I don't see the point of trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Agree with everything you say...except I'd love to find a way to stop the kicks for penalty, or some of them, without inviting more cynical fouls.
My theory above was that if you combined the release of the tackled player requirement, with something a little less than the las Vegas style card system, you might deter the cynics and stop the penalties.
So I await with interest reports from the varsity cup.

 

[Slim 293]

Why do you want to find a way to stop the kicks for penalty?

 

[louie]

Interesting if these rules had been played at the world cup France would have won and ABs lost.

Doing stuff like things changes how we look at the history of our game. If you change to much you can no longer compare teams now to teams back in 1995 or 1999. May as well no call it rugby any more.

 

[Brumbieman]

A couple i'd like to see:

The drop/penalty going back to where its kicked from. Definitely the droppie, penalty is up for debate.

The introduction of a third card, with a 5 minute punishment. This would allow refs te feel a tad more open to carding something (read: McCaw) for being an arse at the breakdown and deliberately slowing play. 10mins is deemed to influence a game too much, so how about a 5 minute one as well? We saw with the ELV's how much more open the game became, and how there was far less deliberate infringing at the breakdown once teams started getting 3-4 cards in a match.

Bring back rucking. Yes, I know, there are thugs in 3rd grade who just stamp on people. But why does that mean we should not have it at a professional level? Eg ITM, Curry Cup, Super rugby etc etc.

One other thing: if the ball goes to the back of the lineout, and is not straight, but NOT CONTESTED, just let it go! If both teams contest and its not straight, sure, call it. But why stop the game for yet another time, if it has absolutely no bearing on things?

 

[qwerty51]

I don't get it either, who says a 6-9 game isn't exciting? I love rugby because unlike most sports where the ball is the object/weapon, in rugby your body is the object/weapon. I love collisions. If you want to see people running over the line to score tries go watch 7s.

 

[Slim 293]

One of the most entertaining Super Rugby matches I watched a few years ago was Gregan, Larkham and Paul's last home game with the Brumbies against the Crusaders.

Two traditionally running rugby teams.

Lots of running rugby.

No tries.

Incredible defensive effort from both sides.

Hoiles pilfers a penalty on the Brumbies' goal line after waves of Crusaders' attacks.

Larkham drop goal to win the match.

Awesome.

 

[RugbyFuture]

dont mind all of it, think that all kicks should be two points, would standardise the rules a bit more, change only a little, and anyone who argues it shouldnt change are being old farts who think damn kids are messing with their game....guess what, change has to happen.

The short arm was good at the time too.

 

[Slim 293]

dont mind all of it, think that all kicks should be two points, would standardise the rules a bit more, change only a little, and anyone who argues it shouldnt change are being old farts who think damn kids are messing with their game....guess what, change has to happen.

The short arm was good at the time too.

On the flipside, anyone who think penalties should only be worth 2 points should go and watch rugby league...

eh?

 

[Lee Grant]

1. I gather the white card they speak of was the review on the captain's call: not at all in favour as it will just sap momentum

2.Correct me if I'm wrong (not that such an invitation is needed on here) but during the Las Vegas era you write of we did not have the catch and release tackle laws - did we?

3. I saw the problem with the Vegas period as being that it often came to depend on whether the breakdown contester heard the refs call of "no hands now", or the equivalent. The consequence was that blokes were getting binned for cynical fouls that were first offences, arguably because of the lack of precision in the laws at the breakdown at that time.

1. The captains call is not being trialled again.


2. I'm not sure what you mean by catch and release. Do you mean that the tackler had to release the tackled player as the first transaction then the tackled player had to release the ball once enabled to? That has always been in the laws, but it was something that was marginalised by players who were aggressive in pushing the envelope.

Non-compliance as a regular practice started before the pro era, but when it was noticed that referees were going along with non-immediate releasing, and were even allowing holding onto the opponent on the ground for a tackler to lever themselves up and to help them stay near the spot to overcome their momentum, it became chronic.

A Darwinian rugby evolution then happened. Players who complied with the laws as written could not survive and they had to join the non-compliers or get another job.

14/15 years later the law crackdown came and tacklers had to release the tackled player really, really immediately - but I digress.


3. I have to moderate my comments on the Vegas period when cards were dished out in the appropriate manner. When the 2007 Shute Shield started up and the events for which penalty kicks could be awarded were restricted, and the players became cynical, as was expected, the yellow cards came thick and fast.

As the weeks went on a funny thing happened: players were complying because they knew they were on a red if they got caught again; a few blokes were getting them. Gradually fewer and fewer cards of any colour got issued; the free kick sanctions were working.

Yours truly said he could not wait to see the 2008 Super14. I could write a book of what happened in that tournament but it suffices to say that that particular ELV became a laughing stock in the rugby world. Pity.

We have to distinguish between what happened in the 2007 Shute Shield and the 2007 Mazda ARC. In the SS players were not allowed to have their hands in the ruck, as usual, but in the ARC it was just like a tackle: you could have hands in. The offside law was made applicable to the tackle as it was to the ruck. Therefore the ref did not have to decide if a ruck had formed, or not.

I don't think that the rugby world was ready for this: it was too much all at once. One thing I liked about it was that there was more fetching by defenders and therefore more turnovers, and therefore more times when the opponent back lines weren't set, and therefore more breaks. But this kite wouldn't fly in the NH, thought I.

But I digress again.
.

 

[RugbyFuture]

On the flipside, anyone who think penalties should only be worth 2 points should go and watch rugby league...

eh?

if you're so abruptly against the idea of progression that you'd throw that accusation out, you are the type of person who would lead our game to its death. Some things mungo have done right, not many, but some.

 

[louie]

Rugbyfuture anyone that would change Rugby to make it more like league with the idea that they've done somethings right is sending rugby to it's death. That isn't progression, it's called merging.

 

[Slim 293]

if you're so abruptly against the idea of progression that you'd throw that accusation out, you are the type of person who would lead our game to its death. Some things mungo have done right, not many, but some.

I've already addressed this.

Game evolves over time.

But there is no problem with the current points system, and it doesn't need to be changed.

There are other aspects of the sport that can be tweaked, and probably need to... but this is not one.

Penalties and drop goals shouldn't be reduced.

 

[feed_me]

I think that an alternate way to reward tries would be to add on 'bonus points' for each penalty awarded, say within 40m of the goal line.

For example, team A is on attack... if team B infringes, A has the option to go for a 3 point penalty. If they choose not to, and tap/scrum/kick to touch, then a try would now be worth 6 points. If B infringes again, and A doesn't take the penalty, a try would now be worth 7 points. Would have the effect of reducing the relative value of pens, but also punishing repeated/cynical infringements.

 

[Bowside]

Bring back rucking, old school scrums and consistent refs. The game will fix itself overnight.

 

[Schadenfreude]

If you want less penalties. Make them worth 4 points. Make them worth 5 and watch the cynical penalties disappear.

Better yet, enforce the rules we have right now consistently and I think a lot of cynical penalties will go.

Reducing the value of penalties just makes Sir Richie the most valuable player on the planet.

I don't think drop goals need to be tinkered with too much. They reward teams who can dominate territory, and encourages the defending team to contest the ball.

 

[Schadenfreude]

There was a fair amount of rucking at the WC. Was refreshing to see infringers getting a well earned stomping.