CAS Rugby 2023

[CAS Fanatic]

Schedule and predictions for the upcoming week of trials?

 

[schoolboyfooty]

Reports from Death Valley is that there is Alot of yelling by coaches at training today.

Looks like their number 2 and captain in a moon boot.

What are your sources?
Seem like you know a little too much about Waverley, are you a spy?

 

[Snort]

Schedule and predictions for the upcoming week of trials?

Cranbrook plays St Patrick's at Strathfield, I think - I'm expecting a win for Cranbrook. Last week St Pats drew 17-17 with Trinity (who had a red card against them, I understand, and played much of the game with 14) - and I think Cranbrook are a touch stronger than Trinity.

 

[Snort]

Cranbrook plays St Patrick's at Strathfield, I think - I'm expecting a win for Cranbrook. Last week St Pats drew 17-17 with Trinity (who had a red card against them, I understand, and played much of the game with 14) - and I think Cranbrook are a touch stronger than Trinity.

Also St Aloysius v St Stanislaus and I think Waverley v Riverview.

 

[Walshy81]

View v Waves
Knox v Shore
New v Barker
Pats v Brook
Aloys v Stannies
Trinity v St Greg's

 

[scrumhead99]

Cranbrook plays St Patrick's at Strathfield, I think - I'm expecting a win for Cranbrook. Last week St Pats drew 17-17 with Trinity (who had a red card against them, I understand, and played much of the game with 14) - and I think Cranbrook are a touch stronger than Trinity.

Agreed. I think after the Auggies game Cranbrook will need to change some things, and they will be looking for a win.

On another note here are my tips for the weekend:
View to beat Wav, 21-7
Knox to beat Shore, 35-5
Barker to beat New, 10-7
Stannies to beat Aloys in the wooden spoon matchup, a high scoring affair, 28-27
Trinity to beat Gregs, 50-28

 

[WLF3]

Having just seen the View v Waves Rugby fixtures for this Sat, they are quite upsetting.

Other than each individual A age group View will be pitching lower teams against all the Waves Opens and age groups, eg the Waves 2s v View 3rds, Waves 3rds v View 5ths, and in the age groups it's Waves bs v Views cs and so on.

What a joke and a potential waste of time, as I predict View will get toweled up in each mismatch, and no one wins in that scenario.
The reason is that View have chosen to also play St Gregs, and maybe some other schools throughout the day.
That would be fine in much lower grades but not where like grades are available.

eg the Waves 14bs beat Newington 14bs 50-0 last Sat, and I can't imagine the New bs are too bad, I believe the Waves age group is strong,.
I have a nephew in the View 14bs and we have chosen not to tell him!

If anyone can justify this disgrace I am keen to hear, these trials are supposed to provide a pre season format that tests all comparable schools prior to their own comp, this fails that test miserably imo.

 

[Snort]

WLF, it's a fair point but I do feel sorry for the sportsmasters who need to juggle fixtures to get everyone a game. I assume that this happens because Riverview has more teams than Waverley, but perhaps not. Some schools who have E teams seem to end up playing their Joeys counterparts six times a season.

As for Newington's Bs, I'm not quite as sure as you that they would be strong. For quite some time now Newington has relied on having 15 very good players in its Opens, and not a lot else!

 

[WLF3]

WLF, it's a fair point but I do feel sorry for the sportsmasters who need to juggle fixtures to get everyone a game. I assume that this happens because Riverview has more teams than Waverley, but perhaps not. Some schools who have E teams seem to end up playing their Joeys counterparts six times a season.

As for Newington's Bs, I'm not quite as sure as you that they would be strong. For quite some time now Newington has relied on having 15 very good players in its Opens, and not a lot else!

Snort, Yes I have heard all that before and I did say that it would be fine where a school has more teams in an age group, then the fs can play some other school. However if any school has 5/6 teams in an age group I believe it is essential that these teams get matched up.

Furthermore, without trying to bang on too much, the Waves are nearly always very strong in the age groups, and again this year.
So it makes no sense and is a waste of time imo. No winners here!

 

[AroundTheAnkles]

Snort, Yes I have heard all that before and I did say that it would be fine where a school has more teams in an age group, then the fs can play some other school. However if any school has 5/6 teams in an age group I believe it is essential that these teams get matched up.

Furthermore, without trying to bang on too much, the Waves are nearly always very strong in the age groups, and again this year.
So it makes no sense and is a waste of time imo. No winners here!

It's an impossible situation, for example - Joeys D's will often beat another schools B's, not always but often. Other weeks they will get smashed. So it's fair to say they'd rather test themselves against their D counterparts but they'd also rather play and get smashed than not play at all.

 

[WLF3]

It's an impossible situation, for example - Joeys D's will often beat another schools B's, not always but often. Other weeks they will get smashed. So it's fair to say they'd rather test themselves against their D counterparts but they'd also rather play and get smashed than not play at all.

In all due respect AA, View isn't Joeys and I still don't see the logic.

Why would a school stuff up all the lower grades when at best I think if teams were matched evenly View might win 50% of all games.
I actually think that would also be a struggle against the Waves age groups.

I think I recollect this also happening last year v View, and the results were a joke.
I guess if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, the result will change!

 

[CAS Fanatic]

It's in fact unanimous, point very well argued by counsel.

I'm all for a report of Brook dominating Augs, but I did wonder what was meant by it, considering the final score.

Based on the match report Cranbrook had 13 entries into Auggies 22 compared to their 5 into Cranbrooks. Good signs yet obviously issues with execution on the day.

 

[Union on Top]

Having just seen the View v Waves Rugby fixtures for this Sat, they are quite upsetting.

Other than each individual A age group View will be pitching lower teams against all the Waves Opens and age groups, eg the Waves 2s v View 3rds, Waves 3rds v View 5ths, and in the age groups it's Waves bs v Views cs and so on.

What a joke and a potential waste of time, as I predict View will get toweled up in each mismatch, and no one wins in that scenario.
The reason is that View have chosen to also play St Gregs, and maybe some other schools throughout the day.
That would be fine in much lower grades but not where like grades are available.

eg the Waves 14bs beat Newington 14bs 50-0 last Sat, and I can't imagine the New bs are too bad, I believe the Waves age group is strong,.
I have a nephew in the View 14bs and we have chosen not to tell him!

If anyone can justify this disgrace I am keen to hear, these trials are supposed to provide a pre season format that tests all comparable schools prior to their own comp, this fails that test miserably imo.

Last year, Cranbrooks undefeated 2nds team played View’s 3rds and only one by a try. Cranbrooks 3rds who only lost to Knox last season played against Views 5ths and were well beaten, 26-7. So I do believe these games will not be blowouts, but I do back Waverly to win both games.

 

[AroundTheAnkles]

In all due respect AA, View isn't Joeys and I still don't see the logic.

Why would a school stuff up all the lower grades when at best I think if teams were matched evenly View might win 50% of all games.
I actually think that would also be a struggle against the Waves age groups.

I think I recollect this also happening last year v View, and the results were a joke.
I guess if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, the result will change!

I hear you, Waves generally has decent depth so I think Joeys would go head to head at least for A's and B's at a minimum and then alternate. it's a different situation if they play a school like Barker where there is no depth, you would probably play their A's against Joeys B's and find a worthwhile opponent for the A's and other games for the lower grades. Not sure what Views capper is but I wouldn't like to send lower graded players out against Waves teams. Perhaps the View boys are treating the weekend as belated penance for Easter.

 

[WLF3]

WLF3, like Snort, I have banged on about evenness of match ups before.

I don't understand why associations don't ask schools to nominate a 'division' for each of their teams. If the Waverley 14A's nominate as division 1, and the Waverley 14B nominate as division 2 and that was known amongst the sportmasters / MICs, then schools can be matched up on that basis. eg. If the Riverview 14A's nominate as division 2, then the Waverley 14Bs play Riverview 14As and Waverly 14As need to find another division 1 team to play.

Nomination of 'division' can be subjective by each school, or could attempt to be more robust (ie. points system based on club players, rep players, years experience, rugby league club standard, league rep player, etc). Presumably the sportsmasters / rugby MIC meet up each week and for the first few weeks of the trial season could review the accuracy of the 'division'. I am sure they could easily review 5 minutes of iphone match footage each week to also ensure the nominated division is appropriate.

These division and their adjustment during the trial period then could inform the structure of the CAS comp. eg. Division 1 has all the teams who are considered division 1 after the trials. It might also mean that strong rugby schools have both their A and B team in the division 1 comp and the weaker schools have their A team in division 2 or 3.

I guess what I have described above is pretty similar to the SJRU grading approach and I know that many will say it doesn't work for schools as it means that have teams spread all across Sydney and therefore is logistically impossible (especially for those with boarders), wrecks school spirit, etc, etc.

If rugby wants to stay viable at the school level, then I can't see another alternate (other than a division structure between merged associations).

Yes ap1, I too have commented on exactly this type of format but it won't happen unfortunately.

There is no point in having a CAS specific divisional comp, there would be only 3 schools in div 1.
It needs to involve multiple associations to have the sufficient number of schools to make a reasonably sized division.
The GPS will never buy into this, I think the ISA may well, but not even sure if all the CAS schools would.

I actually think the grading criteria, and work involved to do this, would turn the Sports Masters off, and I understand that, as they have many other sports to also look after.
The only issue that may one day force such a merge might be based on safety issues, ie 1 school being undersized/limited ability etc.

In the case I put forward, ie View v Waves, I am sure it has an easy fix, and that is, play against the corresponding teams.
Waves played Newington last week and the matchups were normal.

How is this any different? Simple it's not.

 

[WLF3]

I hear you, Waves generally has decent depth so I think Joeys would go head to head at least for A's and B's at a minimum and then alternate. it's a different situation if they play a school like Barker where there is no depth, you would probably play their A's against Joeys B's and find a worthwhile opponent for the A's and other games for the lower grades. Not sure what Views capper is but I wouldn't like to send lower graded players out against Waves teams. Perhaps the View boys are treating the weekend as belated penance for Easter.

Ha Aa, pretty sure the View boys have nothing to do with this, it goes much higher up.
Your Joeys analogy v Waves As and Bs, is spot on, likewise Joeys v Barker, so it boils down to who you are playing.

In this case, View v Waves, it should be like for like.

 

[RedOrDead]

WLF3, like Snort, I have banged on about evenness of match ups before.

I don't understand why associations don't ask schools to nominate a 'division' for each of their teams. If the Waverley 14A's nominate as division 1, and the Waverley 14B nominate as division 2 and that was known amongst the sportmasters / MICs, then schools can be matched up on that basis. eg. If the Riverview 14A's nominate as division 2, then the Waverley 14Bs play Riverview 14As and Waverly 14As need to find another division 1 team to play.

Nomination of 'division' can be subjective by each school, or could attempt to be more robust (ie. points system based on club players, rep players, years experience, rugby league club standard, league rep player, etc). Presumably the sportsmasters / rugby MIC meet up each week and for the first few weeks of the trial season could review the accuracy of the 'division'. I am sure they could easily review 5 minutes of iphone match footage each week to also ensure the nominated division is appropriate.

These division and their adjustment during the trial period then could inform the structure of the CAS comp. eg. Division 1 has all the teams who are considered division 1 after the trials. It might also mean that strong rugby schools have both their A and B team in the division 1 comp and the weaker schools have their A team in division 2 or 3.

I guess what I have described above is pretty similar to the SJRU grading approach and I know that many will say it doesn't work for schools as it means that have teams spread all across Sydney and therefore is logistically impossible (especially for those with boarders), wrecks school spirit, etc, etc.

If rugby wants to stay viable at the school level, then I can't see another alternate (other than a division structure between merged associations).

Can't agree more.

 

[RedOrDead]

The AAGPS was established to provide organised games between schools of similar aspiration. The motto of the Association is “Unity in Diversity”. The following features of the Association have developed over a long period.

Joker. Tradition isn't everything. It can change. Just cause it used to be the right way to do things, doesn't mean it will always be the right way. I'm sure I don't need to make some analogy or argument for you and I to agree there.

The issue is... GPS Schools know longer have "similar aspirations", or if they do, they now have very different ways of getting there. Hence Grammar, Boys, TAS separating themselves further and further from the other schools everyday. You and I are both rugby fans, its why we spend so much time on this forum talking about it. The fact of the matter is this will be positive for rugby. More kids from weaker rugby schools will be likely to sign up and stick with it when they get even match ups every week. Additionally, we could really capitalise on the entertainment factor of a Super 1st XV competition. Imagine a Joeys vs Barker grand final last year. What the entertainment factor could do for numbers. What a marquee sporting event could do in the battle with rugby league. The scouts it would draw to try and keep our talent in Union.

I do understand trying to move boarders around to every school in Sydney would be damn near impossible with the current means of doing so. But I do think we could do it with just the 1stXV. Move them to a later time, or do a Friday night or something. As I said I think it would benefit rugby.

 

[scrumhead99]

Snort, Yes I have heard all that before and I did say that it would be fine where a school has more teams in an age group, then the fs can play some other school. However if any school has 5/6 teams in an age group I believe it is essential that these teams get matched up.

Furthermore, without trying to bang on too much, the Waves are nearly always very strong in the age groups, and again this year.
So it makes no sense and is a waste of time imo. No winners here!

WLF3, I 100% agree. I think it's a really stupid system. It makes no sense and quite frankly will be a waste of time no matter the results.

 

[Joker]

What the entertainment factor could do for numbers. What a marquee sporting event could do in the battle with rugby league. The scouts it would draw to try and keep our talent in Union.

Is this what has become of the CAS system? You have allowed already sporting scholarships, created an arms race for the best talent you can lure from leagues club and domestic rep teams and then you think your rugby program is designed purely for entertaining the great unwashed masses and creating financial incentive for kids who should be studying. No thank you. Schoolboy is a for school boys NOT semi professional players and those who wish to create empires.

Finally, AAGPS and CAS do play one another in a match that pits the best of each.
Last year was...