CAS Rugby 2023

[WLF3]

Anyone have a report/comments on Waverley v Barker? Biggest game of the competition so far and yet.... nothing...

More than happy to give an overview Snort!

A weaker than I expected crowd watched a sea sawing game.
Don't know why, many Waves supporters were there, including old boys, but I can only think it reflects a waning Rugby interest at Barker, still, I would have thought they would come given the season Barker has had so far this season Maybe they will go to the local Knox/Barker derby.

In the first 10 -15 mins the Waves were in control camped down in Barkers half/quarter but just couldn't get over the line, final passes often the cause. The Waves did get a conversion to lead 3 nil but really should have been further ahead.

The next 15 minutes saw the Barker machine kick in and they scored a pick and drive try, which was converted, followed by a sharp backline move down the left hand blind side to cover 50 meters and score a terrific schoolboy try. The score 12-3, and there was a feeling that the Waves may have missed a big chance and so really needed to score next to even up the game. They did in the last 5 mins with a similar pick and drive try, converted, and so at half time it was 12-10 Barker. Nothing in it.

There was talk on this thread that Barker would more than likely end up grinding away their opposition, I guess like many other games this year, and win by a solid margin.

The opposite happened. The Waves scored a solid try within Barkers quarter and ran out to a 17-12 lead.
Then the period which won the match saw a 10 minute period where Barker was camped down on the Waves try line and held up 3 times resulting in goal line drop outs. This was the turning point, a dropped ball by Barker saw the Waves score a magnificent 80 meter try which was converted. Waves 24-12.

Barker then scored a scrappy kick through try in the Waves quarter, which was dubious IMO, but awarded but not converted. Waves 24-17 with 10 to go. The game still had plenty of time to be won or lost.
What happened then I think surprised the Barker fraternity. The Waves forwards dominated, particularly in the set pieces, with the Barker scrum being driven back several times on their feed. Finally the Waves got camped on the Barker line and scored a powerful prop try, on the burst by Kye Pule, and that put it beyond doubt, Waves 29-17.

TBH, the Waves probably had more scoring opportunities then Barker, but they weren't all taken.
Both sides went hard, but it was the Waves pack, and a number of backline raids that stamped the Waves win.

As I had previously been saying, due to injury over the season, it was hard to know what they could do.
They now have all but 1 2nd rower back, and they are a real force.
I don't believe Barker have lost a game at Barker for years, and so winning up there is very difficult.
I did say early in the season the Waves could win it, given their dominance throughout the age groups.

Knox are clearly the team to beat now, and deservedly so, and it will be at Death Valley.
Should the Waves continue their improvement, then the CAS comp may well be decide after round 3.
Time will tell!

 

[Ziggy]

Dumb comment with no foundation and completely untrue

only one dumb comment here.... I spoke directly to a CAS selector this morning who told me this.

You believe what you want to believe champ... better still, go back to your homework.

 

[rod skellet]

More than happy to give an overview Snort!

A weaker than I expected crowd watched a sea sawing game.
Don't know why, many Waves supporters were there, including old boys, but I can only think it reflects a waning Rugby interest at Barker, still, I would have thought they would come given the season Barker has had so far this season Maybe they will go to the local Knox/Barker derby.

In the first 10 -15 mins the Waves were in control camped down in Barkers half/quarter but just couldn't get over the line, final passes often the cause. The Waves did get a conversion to lead 3 nil but really should have been further ahead.

The next 15 minutes saw the Barker machine kick in and they scored a pick and drive try, which was converted, followed by a sharp backline move down the left hand blind side to cover 50 meters and score a terrific schoolboy try. The score 12-3, and there was a feeling that the Waves may have missed a big chance and so really needed to score next to even up the game. They did in the last 5 mins with a similar pick and drive try, converted, and so at half time it was 12-10 Barker. Nothing in it.

There was talk on this thread that Barker would more than likely end up grinding away their opposition, I guess like many other games this year, and win by a solid margin.

The opposite happened. The Waves scored a solid try within Barkers quarter and ran out to a 17-12 lead.
Then the period which won the match saw a 10 minute period where Barker was camped down on the Waves try line and held up 3 times resulting in goal line drop outs. This was the turning point, a dropped ball by Barker saw the Waves score a magnificent 80 meter try which was converted. Waves 24-12.

Barker then scored a scrappy kick through try in the Waves quarter, which was dubious IMO, but awarded but not converted. Waves 24-17 with 10 to go. The game still had plenty of time to be won or lost.
What happened then I think surprised the Barker fraternity. The Waves forwards dominated, particularly in the set pieces, with the Barker scrum being driven back several times on their feed. Finally the Waves got camped on the Barker line and scored a powerful prop try, on the burst by Kye Pule, and that put it beyond doubt, Waves 29-17.

TBH, the Waves probably had more scoring opportunities then Barker, but they weren't all taken.
Both sides went hard, but it was the Waves pack, and a number of backline raids that stamped the Waves win.

As I had previously been saying, due to injury over the season, it was hard to know what they could do.
They now have all but 1 2nd rower back, and they are a real force.
I don't believe Barker have lost a game at Barker for years, and so winning up there is very difficult.
I did say early in the season the Waves could win it, given their dominance throughout the age groups.

Knox are clearly the team to beat now, and deservedly so, and it will be at Death Valley.
Should the Waves continue their improvement, then the CAS comp may well be decide after round 3.
Time will tell!

I could be wrong, but the last time Barker lost to a CAS school at Barker was in 2017 against Waverly. This was Ben Donaldson, Finn Wright et al Year. I think Waves had 5 players in the Aussie schools side that year. It was a close game. 1point margin.

 

[rod skellet]

More than happy to give an overview Snort!

A weaker than I expected crowd watched a sea sawing game.
Don't know why, many Waves supporters were there, including old boys, but I can only think it reflects a waning Rugby interest at Barker, still, I would have thought they would come given the season Barker has had so far this season Maybe they will go to the local Knox/Barker derby.

In the first 10 -15 mins the Waves were in control camped down in Barkers half/quarter but just couldn't get over the line, final passes often the cause. The Waves did get a conversion to lead 3 nil but really should have been further ahead.

The next 15 minutes saw the Barker machine kick in and they scored a pick and drive try, which was converted, followed by a sharp backline move down the left hand blind side to cover 50 meters and score a terrific schoolboy try. The score 12-3, and there was a feeling that the Waves may have missed a big chance and so really needed to score next to even up the game. They did in the last 5 mins with a similar pick and drive try, converted, and so at half time it was 12-10 Barker. Nothing in it.

There was talk on this thread that Barker would more than likely end up grinding away their opposition, I guess like many other games this year, and win by a solid margin.

The opposite happened. The Waves scored a solid try within Barkers quarter and ran out to a 17-12 lead.
Then the period which won the match saw a 10 minute period where Barker was camped down on the Waves try line and held up 3 times resulting in goal line drop outs. This was the turning point, a dropped ball by Barker saw the Waves score a magnificent 80 meter try which was converted. Waves 24-12.

Barker then scored a scrappy kick through try in the Waves quarter, which was dubious IMO, but awarded but not converted. Waves 24-17 with 10 to go. The game still had plenty of time to be won or lost.
What happened then I think surprised the Barker fraternity. The Waves forwards dominated, particularly in the set pieces, with the Barker scrum being driven back several times on their feed. Finally the Waves got camped on the Barker line and scored a powerful prop try, on the burst by Kye Pule, and that put it beyond doubt, Waves 29-17.

TBH, the Waves probably had more scoring opportunities then Barker, but they weren't all taken.
Both sides went hard, but it was the Waves pack, and a number of backline raids that stamped the Waves win.

As I had previously been saying, due to injury over the season, it was hard to know what they could do.
They now have all but 1 2nd rower back, and they are a real force.
I don't believe Barker have lost a game at Barker for years, and so winning up there is very difficult.
I did say early in the season the Waves could win it, given their dominance throughout the age groups.

Knox are clearly the team to beat now, and deservedly so, and it will be at Death Valley.
Should the Waves continue their improvement, then the CAS comp may well be decide after round 3.
Time will tell!

CAS Round 3 - Waves win Hornsby thriller - Green & Gold Rugby

Barker and Waverley played an epic game that will be talked about for ages. In the end, only one point separated these two competition heavyweights and the victors, the “Double-Vee” from Waverley, now sit tied with Knox, at the top of the CAS table with two rounds remaining. In other matches...

greenandgoldrugby.com

 

[WLF3]

I could be wrong, but the last time Barker lost to a CAS school at Barker was in 2017 against Waverly. This was Ben Donaldson, Finn Wright et al Year. I think Waves had 5 players in the Aussie schools side that year. It was a close game. 1point margin.

Spot on Rod, you are good. We didn't get to play in 2021 but that is a terrific record, could be named the North Death Valley .
But sorry there is only 1 Death Valley!

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

I could be wrong, but the last time Barker lost to a CAS school at Barker was in 2017 against Waverly. This was Ben Donaldson, Finn Wright et al Year. I think Waves had 5 players in the Aussie schools side that year. It was a close game. 1point margin.

Finn Wright didn’t play Rod. He was overseas for that game.

 

[rod skellet]

Spot on Rod, you are good. We didn't get to play in 2021 but that is a terrific record, could be named the North Death Valley .
But sorry there is only 1 Death Valley!

Barkers No1 Oval will never be as feared as Death Valley

 

[rod skellet]

Finn Wright didn’t play Rod. He was overseas for that game.

I was generalising. Finn was in that team that dominated CAS selections and resulted in the first win over GPS in a decade.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

I was generalising. Finn was in that team that dominated CAS selections and resulted in the first win over GPS in a decade.

And they won the year after too with a strong Barker contingent.

And they should have won again in 2021. If not for the worst lineouts and the worlds worst scrum debacle by selectors. Played a tight head at loose head and the poor kid didn’t know how to make sure the ball got through.

 

[Flavio]

Was at the game and for what should have been one of the 3 biggest games of the season what was sad was the lack of supporters, both parents and students from both schools. I feel this is the turning point in the decline of schoolboy rugby. If the students aren't engaged enough to turn up what hope does it have to attract players to the game. Looking at the scores across all the grades it is obvious Barker is now on a downward spiral.
I think the reliance on the private schools to provide the future professional player pathway needs to be rethought and maybe club rugby should become the pathway. How many kids either don't have the financial ability or a (can't say that word) opportunity to get into a private school that would thrive in a well supported club based rugby system.

As I said in a previous post, the increase in sports offered and change in the cohort demographic means there will be less and less of a pool of players to choose from.

If RA are keen to grow the game invest in club rugby which provides an opportunity for anyone that wants to play not just those that can afford to go to a private school

 

[Jumping_jack]

And they won the year after too with a strong Barker contingent.

And they should have won again in 2021. If not for the worst lineouts and the worlds worst scrum debacle by selectors. Played a tight head at loose head and the poor kid didn’t know how to make sure the ball got through.

That 2021 year was the start of the selection chaos for the last three seasons.

They basically destroyed any chance of CAS winning a scrum all game with poor choices and had the two best scrummaging props in the seconds. Then the next year they blamed the prop they picked the year before.. and popped him in the seconds when he should have been in the firsts. And picked a 15 year old at fullback.

It really is time for new selectors.

 

[rod skellet]

I have been quiet on the CAS selection debate deliberately as we are dealing with school kids and whether they are in or out may have very personal impacts on them. Criticism from GnG bloggers does not help.. The selectors have a tough job but their process is more robust than the arm chair selectors here on GnG. Invariably they have watched key games for all CAS schools, the majority of which were probably trials. Barker had solid trial form. Close wins over Riverview and Newington clearly assisted in clarifying selectors choices. Sadly one of the most influential players for Barker in both of those matches was Matt Hanley, Barkers Captain and No8. Injured against Newington, he is gone for the season but not without potentially influencing selectors on players around him. Young Harrison Deane at 10 outplayed his GPS rivals on the day in both games and selectors remember things like that. That said the balance looks ok in the CAS1sts. Knox are clearly the best team and deserve their 9 caps in the CAS 1sts. But they have 2 tough games remaining. They must get past Waves at Death Valley which is no easy task and then take on Barker at home in the season finale. A betting man would give similar odds for 3 scenarios to play out. Knox winning outright. Waves winning outright or a 3 way tie. Bring on term 3.

 

[FootyCentral!]

only one dumb comment here.... I spoke directly to a CAS selector this morning who told me this.

You believe what you want to believe champ... better still go back to your homework.

Ahaha I look foward to seeing his name come up in a CIS rugby team then.
Otherwise you better talk with your CAS friend again as it would seem he just can’t get his job right

 

[DropGoal]

I think the reliance on the private schools to provide the future professional player pathway needs to be rethought and maybe club rugby should become the pathway. How many kids either don't have the financial ability or a (can't say that word) opportunity to get into a private school that would thrive in a well supported club based rugby system.

As I said in a previous post, the increase in sports offered and change in the cohort demographic means there will be less and less of a pool of players to choose from.

If Rugby Australia are keen to grow the game invest in club rugby which provides an opportunity for anyone that wants to play not just those that can afford to go to a private school

its not just a rugby problem .. it’s a nrl problem too .. globalisation, social media etc .. the next generation of kids look up to Messi and Ronaldo.. that’s why so many schools only have one or two rugby teams and go down to the Gs inn soccer

 

[moa999]

It does open up the question whether the CAS should move to a two round comp (at least if the GPS is doing that).

You then at least have a better comparison to select a team before the rep rounds.

Not good for the ISA schools, but arguably makes selections fairer.

 

[WLF3]

I was generalising. Finn was in that team that dominated CAS selections and resulted in the first win over GPS in a decade.

For what it is worth Rod in that Barker game at Barker, yes Finn Wright didn't play but also didn't Luca Moretti, so a few serious omissions.

 

[rod skellet]

For what it is worth Rod in that Barker game at Barker, yes Finn Wright didn't play but also didn't Luca Moretti, so a few serious omissions.

Yes. Luca was the best no 8 going around. He had a cracking game against GPS in that epic game at St Josephs. 21 nil lead at half time. 21/19 fulltime thanks to Ben Brydon taking out Josep Souali.

 

[Masked Crusader]

It does open up the question whether the CAS should move to a two round comp (at least if the GPS is doing that).

You then at least have a better comparison to select a team before the rep rounds.

Not good for the ISA schools, but arguably makes selections fairer.

More rounds wouldn’t help if your starting point is NFI.

 

[rod skellet]

 

[WLF3]

I have been quiet on the CAS selection debate deliberately as we are dealing with school kids and whether they are in or out may have very personal impacts on them. Criticism from GnG bloggers does not help.. The selectors have a tough job but their process is more robust than the arm chair selectors here on GnG. Invariably they have watched key games for all CAS schools, the majority of which were probably trials. Barker had solid trial form. Close wins over Riverview and Newington clearly assisted in clarifying selectors choices. Sadly one of the most influential players for Barker in both of those matches was Matt Hanley, Barkers Captain and No8. Injured against Newington, he is gone for the season but not without potentially influencing selectors on players around him. Young Harrison Deane at 10 outplayed his GPS rivals on the day in both games and selectors remember things like that. That said the balance looks ok in the CAS1sts. Knox are clearly the best team and deserve their 9 caps in the CAS 1sts. But they have 2 tough games remaining. They must get past Waves at Death Valley which is no easy task and then take on Barker at home in the season finale. A betting man would give similar odds for 3 scenarios to play out. Knox winning outright. Waves winning outright or a 3 way tie. Bring on term 3.

G'Day Rod, agree that boys should be completely left out of any discussions/criticisms re selections, similarly, blaming refs, Yes they make mistakes but are human and it's a thankless job, that's why they are diminishing.

Selectors on the other hand is a different issue. In defense of them, they are typically chosen, so whilst they may/may not get things right, they agree to do it, and so they have a duty to do their homework and get it as right as possible, because it does make a big difference.

Example, a mate of mine was at a Waves v Newington game way early in the year, a GPS dad, and was asking me who was who on the field, NOT his fault but REALLY! So he sees 1 game!
So I am not sure how robust their selection process really is, and of course, the political pull of the coaches. counts.

Then what happens is that teams can either get better as the season progresses or maybe worse. Waves is a classic example, not good early at all, but that was because half their team was on the sideline. Now they have beaten 2 strong CAS schools and have won their last 5 games with all players back. So based on the most current form, how does Waverley only get 2 players in the CAS 1s?
This analogy applies to any side in that position because basing positions on games over 6/7 games ago just doesn't cut it.

Furthermore, just as the GPS people will probably agree on their own front, we get it very wrong almost every year.
The process of selecting selectors needs to be better, understandably it will probably never be perfect, but way too many errors have occurred over the last few years IMO, others may disagree which is fine, but how we lost in 2021, with the talent on offer we had, was a joke.