CAS Rugby 2023

[Goosestep]

Give me a call next time Shore wins the GPS...

It's actually not a problem. If your only good team is your 1st XV, you're not a tier one school, you're just a top-end recruiting drive. You want to be a tier one school, do more than recruit half a dozen players a year (I don't mean to say that this applies to either Barker or Newington). One effect of the tiering is to allow schools to compete at the level appropriate to their program (and one desirable side-effect could be to stop the situation where schools feel they need to recruit Year 11s in order to field a competitive 1st XV).

Aren’t you contradicting yourself here ?

 

[AroundTheAnkles]

Give me a call next time Shore wins the GPS...

Is it just about winning?

 

[Snort]

"Give me a call next time Aloys or Trinity win the CAS hotshot"

Isn't that exactly my point?

 

[Snort]

Aren’t you contradicting yourself here ?

No. How?

 

[Goosestep]

No. How?

Cause they’ve improved as a school… just cause the 1xv aren’t champions yet, doesn’t mean they haven’t improved.

there are no blowout scores, you can’t deny they're now competitive and belong in the first div

 

[Snort]

Is it just about winning?

Of course not. No one suggests that. But Shore last won the GPS in 2005. Their last outright (ie, not shared) win before that was in 1969. That does tend to suggest an imbalance in the competition.

 

[dusk]

"Give me a call next time Aloys or Trinity win the CAS hotshot"

Isn't that exactly my point?

No, because Shore have improved their rugby program as a whole, many of their A's and B's team can and have beaten other schools this year.

 

[Snort]

Cause they’ve improved as a school… just cause the 1xv aren’t champions yet, doesn’t mean they haven’t improved.

there are no blowout scores, you can’t deny they're now competitive and belong in the first div

I'm not saying that Shore belongs in tier two. What I'm saying is that in this (highly hypothetical, because I'm not in charge and no one has the guts to do it, because a bunch of old boys would go beserk and threaten to stop their donations) scenario, you would make tiering choices based on a range of factors, of which recent 1st XV performance is only one. And recent 1st XV performance is in some ways the least important, because we all know that any school that wants to can recruit a brand new, competitive team despite having a shallow Rugby program and developing little of its own talent. You know what? The US College football system has three divisions, like schools play like schools, and it works just fine. New Zealand has a structured schools Rugby system. It's not easy, but it's feasible.

Anyway... like I say it won't happen. But that doesn't mean I have to like the decaying system we have now.

 

[Goosestep]

Of course not. No one suggests that. But Shore last won the GPS in 2005. Their last outright (ie, not shared) win before that was in 1969. That does tend to suggest an imbalance in the competition.

Not really? joeys last won the head of the river in 2015 and before that in the 70s…. But they’ve come second like a million of times …. That still makes them a competitive side

 

[RedOrDead]

And, by the way, if you think that teams winning 100-0 is an indication of a failed competition, just remember the Barker-Aloysius game a couple of years back. Or the 100-0 scorelines that sent Grammar and High to the 3rd XV competition.

And the Barker game was ended 15 minutes early too...

Thank the lords I have snort to talk some sense.

 

[WLF3]

Yep and considering most of the other cas schools also use public ovals it’s extremely ignorant.

always had a tough time at Waverley, it was called Death Valley cause A) they smashed most teams and B) it’s in a valley duh

Thanks GS, I think we all agree the 2+2 statement was unfortunate and smacked of the wrong stuff, aside from being naive.
Also unfortunately have had no response.

I also know Scots do as well, not sure about the GPS schools, but who cares!

 

[RedOrDead]

That’s all well and good … But the whole premise of the proposed tier system on this board was one based on promotion / relegation system similar to Premier league .. which is yearly …. That’s what people were promoting here.

Shore has turned there program around in a couple of years … under your plan they could be waiting decades ….

Considering me and Snort have probably been the two guys pushing this tier system most (along with others)... I promise you that wasn't what we were proposing.

Shore has not turned it around. They are still a tier 2 level rugby program. Why are we pretending they've built a dynasty.

No it would not take decades to adjust adequately. You're desperately grasping at straws here. Everything Snort has said is 100% correct.

 

[RedOrDead]

Not really? joeys last won the head of the river in 2015 and before that in the 70s…. But they’ve come second like a million of times …. That still makes them a competitive side

Let's not compare Joeys rowing to Shore's rugby.... who struggled in alsmot every age group for years and couldn't get a 1sts XV win for like 7 years.... It's disingenuous.

 

[Masked Crusader]

And the Barker game was ended 15 minutes early too...

Thank the lords I have snort to talk some sense.

Imagine what the score between Barker 15a’s and Joeys 15a’s would be. Blood red or dead I’d guess…. Seriously tier 2. Honestly, get a grip man. Barker does not have a strong or deep rugby program. It

 

[RedOrDead]

Imagine what the score between Barker 15a’s and Joeys 15a’s would be. Blood red or dead I’d guess…. Seriously tier 2. Honestly, get a grip man. Barker does not have a strong or deep rugby program. It

I agree Barker would be a tier 2 program in a GPS/CAS/ISA pool.

But an extremely strong 1st XV program (has only lost to Joeys once in the last 8 years I believe?)

You look like an idiot putting words in my mouth.

 

[Masked Crusader]

Considering me and Snort have probably been the two guys pushing this tier system most (along with others)... I promise you that wasn't what we were proposing.

Shore has not turned it around. They are still a tier 2 level rugby program. Why are we pretending they've built a dynasty.

No it would not take decades to adjust adequately. You're desperately grasping at straws here. Everything Snort has said is 100% correct.

It takes one to know one….. Shore are
Progressing pretty well. I reckon they they would win a clear majority of games head to head with barker on any given Saturday. You confuse program (whole of school) with team (1st XV).

 

[Masked Crusader]

I agree Barker would be a tier 2 program in a GPS/CAS/ISA pool.

But an extremely strong 1st XV program (has only lost to Joeys once in the last 8 years I believe?)

You look like an idiot putting words in my mouth.

So Barker would have a really dominant 1st XV in a tier 2 comp. Awesome. You miss the point completely and I might look like an idiot but you in fact are one.

 

[RedOrDead]

So Barker would have a really dominant 1st XV in a tier 2 comp. Awesome. You miss the point completely and I might look like an idiot but you in fact are one.

What point have I missed... seems like I'm just advocating for a better more even rugby program. Utter shit stirring.

It takes one to know one….. Shore are
Progressing pretty well. I reckon they they would win a clear majority of games head to head with barker on any given Saturday. You confuse program (whole of school) with team (1st XV).

You'd hope so... They have three times the boys.

 

[dusk]

Shore has not turned it around. They are still a tier 2 level rugby program. Why are we pretending they've built a dynasty.

I truly hope you understand that if Shore and Barker played matches throughout the 1sts to the 13s, Shore would humiliate barker across all age groups.

 

[RedOrDead]

This is an interesting solution and here is the problem. A school like Barker has a fine first XV and very thin depth (on average)in every other grade and year. What tier should they be in? Newington 1’s beat Joeys by 2 points last week and there 2’s lost by more than 50. What tier should they be in?

Barker would absolutely be in tier 2.

As would Newington.

Me and Snort have been quite clear that it would be based off of an analysis of the holistic rugby program. Not just the 1sts.