CAS Rugby 2023

[rugbyGandG]

Source?

My son

 

[Snort]

G,

I will step in here before a number of people take your bait as being sincere with your comment.
I actually agree with probably 99% of your comments, you get Rugby!

BUT you are 1 of those who only wants 6 schools to play out for rulers of the universe, ie the AAGPS!.
Bugger a better and bigger 1sts comp, and that is your view.

Like many I disagree with your insular view but everyone has their opinion.

The reality is other non-GPS people also have strong feelings about their schools and associations, believe it or not, but can get over their own little world.
There are solutions to the difficulties of team match ups etc, it's just that some schools and people have no interest in making things better, ie a bigger and better matched up comp, it's called progress, and we know that some have NO interest in progress!

(Big sigh)

WLF, you know we agree on this. What we need is a three-tier competition. Schools should be placed on the tiers based not only on 1st XV performance but also on the number of teams they can field and the depth and aspirations of the Rugby program. That's important because some schools field relatively few teams but are highly competitive at 1st XV level because of the way they recruit in years 11 and 12. A school like that might find itself in Tier 2, because it can't field many teams against, say, Joeys. The bottom tier should include schools like Grammar and St Aloysius, who want to play Rugby but are limited by the academically selective nature of their intake. There should be the prospect of movement between tiers and the traditional CAS v GPS (and CHS, ISA) games should remain so as to preserve those traditions and give outstanding players from the lower tiers a chance to show what they can do in higher company.

The only argument against this is "tradition". I don't dismiss that lightly. But when you and I were at school, boys used to be caned, and no one wants that to return because "tradition". Also, it was "tradition" that Sydney Grammar produced Wallaby captains, and that tradition has aged so well that Grammar now plays against the 3rd XVs of other schools. Clinging to things that don't work any more because of tradition is just plain dumb. Plus this: there's an important safety factor at play. One day soon a 70kg kid who wants to be a nuclear physicist is going to collide with a 110kg kid who already has an NRL contract, and it won't be pretty.

I'm not sure that the schools can work this out on their own. The real problem (apart from "traditionalists") is that some schools would find it humiliating to no longer play against top-tier schools. They'll resist change (so that they can continue to lose 0-55 to Joeys). Perhaps this is something Rugby Australia needs to address. After all, the independent schools are their best nursery... they may as well give it some care.

 

[Tim Horan]

Big news out of Waverley camp, Sam Johnson is back to return coming out of a shoulder injury. Looks to bench off 2XV but will work his way up in no time

 

[unionlover1985]

Big news out of Waverley camp, Sam Johnson is back to return coming out of a shoulder injury.

That sounds like pretty minuscule news to me....

 

[Tim Horan]

That sounds like pretty minuscule news to me....

Well no, I'm unsure how quickly he'll recover and adjust in time for CAS but fingers crossed he does and will be a huge plus to the waverley squad in the outside backs

 

[WLF3]

(Big sigh)

WLF, you know we agree on this. What we need is a three-tier competition. Schools should be placed on the tiers based not only on 1st XV performance but also on the number of teams they can field and the depth and aspirations of the Rugby program. That's important because some schools field relatively few teams but are highly competitive at 1st XV level because of the way they recruit in years 11 and 12. A school like that might find itself in Tier 2, because it can't field many teams against, say, Joeys. The bottom tier should include schools like Grammar and St Aloysius, who want to play Rugby but are limited by the academically selective nature of their intake. There should be the prospect of movement between tiers and the traditional CAS v GPS (and CHS, ISA) games should remain so as to preserve those traditions and give outstanding players from the lower tiers a chance to show what they can do in higher company.

The only argument against this is "tradition". I don't dismiss that lightly. But when you and I were at school, boys used to be caned, and no one wants that to return because "tradition". Also, it was "tradition" that Sydney Grammar produced Wallaby captains, and that tradition has aged so well that Grammar now plays against the 3rd XVs of other schools. Clinging to things that don't work any more because of tradition is just plain dumb. Plus this: there's an important safety factor at play. One day soon a 70kg kid who wants to be a nuclear physicist is going to collide with a 110kg kid who already has an NRL contract, and it won't be pretty.

I'm not sure that the schools can work this out on their own. The real problem (apart from "traditionalists") is that some schools would find it humiliating to no longer play against top-tier schools. They'll resist change (so that they can continue to lose 0-55 to Joeys). Perhaps this is something Rugby Australia needs to address. After all, the independent schools are their best nursery... they may as well give it some care.

Yes Snort, this is a well trodden path and keeps getting reinvigorated by newcomers, with good intent, to this site.

Like you, I am also done with this discussion, which will please our GPS cousins, but every point you make is spot on.
The other point I will add is that the Sports Masters of each school do have a lot of other sports to also organize each week, eg a thousand soccer games (that drop off sport).

Rugby also isn't the center of their universe and it would take some work to set this all up, and I can't see a school association agreeing to implement this process. Maybe the only trend one day that may force their hand is the lack of team depth and the safety factor, as you mentioned. Strangely enough these 2 issues I believe will only become more pressing.

So we may end up there for all the wrong/right reasons!

 

[RedOrDead]

Yes Snort, this is a well trodden path and keeps getting reinvigorated by newcomers, with good intent, to this site.

Like you, I am also done with this discussion, which will please our GPS cousins, but every point you make is spot on.
The other point I will add is that the Sports Masters of each school do have a lot of other sports to also organize each week, eg a thousand soccer games (that drop off sport).

Rugby also isn't the center of their universe and it would take some work to set this all up, and I can't see a school association agreeing to implement this process. Maybe the only trend one day that may force their hand is the lack of team depth and the safety factor, as you mentioned. Strangely enough these 2 issues I believe will only become more pressing.

So we may end up there for all the wrong/right reasons!

The safety factor will force change very soon. It's looking almost inevitable everytime Aloys run out at the moment against one of the big 3. I actually think it is dangerous for both teams with such a massive difference in ability.

 

[WLF3]

The safety factor will force change very soon. It's looking almost inevitable everytime Aloys run out at the moment against one of the big 3. I actually think it is dangerous for both teams with such a massive difference in ability.

Spot on RoD,

I just hope if a change comes it is proactive not reactive.

 

[Bob_Jones]

(Big sigh)

WLF, you know we agree on this. What we need is a three-tier competition. Schools should be placed on the tiers based not only on 1st XV performance but also on the number of teams they can field and the depth and aspirations of the Rugby program. That's important because some schools field relatively few teams but are highly competitive at 1st XV level because of the way they recruit in years 11 and 12. A school like that might find itself in Tier 2, because it can't field many teams against, say, Joeys. The bottom tier should include schools like Grammar and St Aloysius, who want to play Rugby but are limited by the academically selective nature of their intake. There should be the prospect of movement between tiers and the traditional CAS v GPS (and CHS, ISA) games should remain so as to preserve those traditions and give outstanding players from the lower tiers a chance to show what they can do in higher company.

The only argument against this is "tradition". I don't dismiss that lightly. But when you and I were at school, boys used to be caned, and no one wants that to return because "tradition". Also, it was "tradition" that Sydney Grammar produced Wallaby captains, and that tradition has aged so well that Grammar now plays against the 3rd XVs of other schools. Clinging to things that don't work any more because of tradition is just plain dumb. Plus this: there's an important safety factor at play. One day soon a 70kg kid who wants to be a nuclear physicist is going to collide with a 110kg kid who already has an NRL contract, and it won't be pretty.

I'm not sure that the schools can work this out on their own. The real problem (apart from "traditionalists") is that some schools would find it humiliating to no longer play against top-tier schools. They'll resist change (so that they can continue to lose 0-55 to Joeys). Perhaps this is something Rugby Australia needs to address. After all, the independent schools are their best nursery... they may as well give it some care.

Snort,

My view is that unfortunately this will only happen following a serious litigation against a school / association for exactly the mismatch and resultant injuries that you have mentioned above. The thing that surprises me is that schools are usually so risk adverse and have reams of risk assessment paperwork for every conceivable thing, yet continue to turn a blind eye to this situation.

 

[pocockenthusiast1973]

(Big sigh)

WLF, you know we agree on this. What we need is a three-tier competition. Schools should be placed on the tiers based not only on 1st XV performance but also on the number of teams they can field and the depth and aspirations of the Rugby program. That's important because some schools field relatively few teams but are highly competitive at 1st XV level because of the way they recruit in years 11 and 12. A school like that might find itself in Tier 2, because it can't field many teams against, say, Joeys. The bottom tier should include schools like Grammar and St Aloysius, who want to play Rugby but are limited by the academically selective nature of their intake. There should be the prospect of movement between tiers and the traditional CAS v GPS (and CHS, ISA) games should remain so as to preserve those traditions and give outstanding players from the lower tiers a chance to show what they can do in higher company.

The only argument against this is "tradition". I don't dismiss that lightly. But when you and I were at school, boys used to be caned, and no one wants that to return because "tradition". Also, it was "tradition" that Sydney Grammar produced Wallaby captains, and that tradition has aged so well that Grammar now plays against the 3rd XVs of other schools. Clinging to things that don't work any more because of tradition is just plain dumb. Plus this: there's an important safety factor at play. One day soon a 70kg kid who wants to be a nuclear physicist is going to collide with a 110kg kid who already has an NRL contract, and it won't be pretty.

I'm not sure that the schools can work this out on their own. The real problem (apart from "traditionalists") is that some schools would find it humiliating to no longer play against top-tier schools. They'll resist change (so that they can continue to lose 0-55 to Joeys). Perhaps this is something Rugby Australia needs to address. After all, the independent schools are their best nursery... they may as well give it some care.

Precisely.

Pocockenthusiast1973 out…

 

[pocockenthusiast1973]

Pocockenthusiast1973 here,

It will be interesting to see how this weekend turns out with interesting fixtures across the board. With Barkers noticeable ability displayed throughout the trials I would expect them to have a soft outing against Stannies. The boys from the west will use their country determination however due to a lack of fundamental skill Barker will prevail. Aloys vs Kinross will be a very interesting game. With both sides not being that strong, I assume the game will be quite close. My nephew however (Kinross Boy) thinks otherwise. Aloys being a contender for the CAS wooden spoon and Kinross being pumped by the Brook, it is clear both teams are lacking. Knox will most likely dominate Pats this weekend. With the King's 3rd XV team beating St Pat 1s it would be assumed that Knox will easily beat the Strathfield side. Trinity vs Oakhill will be a boring game. Oakhill will most likely run away with the victory. Trinity has a very weak side this year. Just shows the disconnect between the top CAS teams (Knox + Barker) and the bottom CAS teams (Trinity + Aloys) Waverly v Gregs will be a close game. Gregs boys will most likely release their inner Campbeltown grit and determination. A win against Waves would be much wanted. Im sure Waves will give them a run for their money though. Very interesting to see how this game pans out. Brook v St Augs will again be a close game. With some electric players from both sides the game shall be a fun one to view at the Easts synthetic grounds. I am sure the Cranbrook boys are hungry for this win after a disappointing first game loss against them. The results of this game will most likely portray Cranbrook's ability for the CAS season.


Pocockenthusiast1973 Out!

 

[Eyes Up Footy]

I'm keen to see everyones thoughts on this idea.
With the recent rise of the NRL and the subsequent downfall union in Sydney, should CAS consider a switch to the superior 13 aside game?
It would mean more opportunities for up-and-coming schoolboy talent due to the mass fan base and money in the league.
Schools such as the glorious Waves are already importing tons of league talent anyway, so it only makes sense!

Union is dead... lets stop flogging a dead horse here lads. (ignore the username)

Unionlover1985,

Seriously....

 

[scrumhead99]

I'm keen to see everyones thoughts on this idea.
With the recent rise of the NRL and the subsequent downfall union in Sydney, should CAS consider a switch to the superior 13 aside game?
It would mean more opportunities for up-and-coming schoolboy talent due to the mass fan base and money in the league.
Schools such as the glorious Waves are already importing tons of league talent anyway, so it only makes sense!

Union is dead... lets stop flogging a dead horse here lads. (ignore the username)

Unionlover1985,

Hi Unionlover, Bit ironic,

I agree a league format could be a great opportunity for a different style of rugby. For the sake of history I do not think this is possible. Might it be better for a union format during winter and a league format during summer?

 

[schoolboyfooty]

Big news out of Waverley camp, Sam Johnson is back to return coming out of a shoulder injury. Looks to bench off 2XV but will work his way up in no time

That's very good news considering the strength of the Waverley 2nd XV before the addition of Sam.

A very strong family of rugby players with his older brother Hugh playing in the CAS winning side in 2020.
Interesting to see that he is also playing with his younger brother Thomas Johnson who plays second row.

 

[pocockenthusiast1973]

I'm keen to see everyones thoughts on this idea.
With the recent rise of the NRL and the subsequent downfall union in Sydney, should CAS consider a switch to the superior 13 aside game?
It would mean more opportunities for up-and-coming schoolboy talent due to the mass fan base and money in the league.
Schools such as the glorious Waves are already importing tons of league talent anyway, so it only makes sense!

Union is dead... lets stop flogging a dead horse here lads. (ignore the username)

Unionlover1985,

Please reconsider your thought Unionlover1985.

Regards
Pockockenthusiast1973

 

[RedOrDead]

Hi Unionlover, Bit ironic,

I agree a league format could be a great opportunity for a different style of rugby. For the sake of history I do not think this is possible. Might it be better for a union format during winter and a league format during summer?

Sounds like a ridiculous amount of injuries.

 

[Masked Crusader]

A classic example of how the system works up here is The Southport School, these fellas couldnt win a chook raffle from 12 - 16 years but the minute we hit 1stXV level they are a top 3 team year in year out.

so just like Barker then?

 

[2 + 2]

Hi Unionlover, Bit ironic,

I agree a league format could be a great opportunity for a different style of rugby. For the sake of history I do not think this is possible. Might it be better for a union format during winter and a league format during summer?

The Qld AIC schools (equivalent of the CAS in NSW) play Union in term 2 then play League in Term3

 

[2 + 2]

so just like Barker then?

correct

 

[pocockenthusiast1973]

The Qld AIC schools (equivalent of the CAS in NSW) play Union in term 2 then play League in Term3

How fascinating.

Pocockenthusiast1973