CAS Rugby 2022

[Greenwhiteblack]

I'll bore people who have been here a while if I repeat my views on this. However....

I'm not sure that the CAS needs to do any more than it already does to "support Rugby". Most schools provide excellent facilities and coaching. What's missing in some schools is the player numbers. There are various reasons for that. One is the schools' catchment areas and groups. St Aloysius is the only academically selective CAS school: that, as the history of Grammar and Sydney Boys High demonstrates, erodes a Rugby program over time because it excludes a group of boys that each other school enrols (who are good at sport but ordinary in the classroom). That is a legitimate decision for the school to make: its duties are to the Jesuits who run the school, the parents and the boys, not to one sporting code. Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.

On top of that, every school now faces the problem that many parents are reluctant to allow their boys to play a sport perceived as dangerous. The risk has always been there (my mother didn't much like me playing), but it's worse now that significant mismatches exist within the CAS, in both skill and size. When there are 100-kilo boys running around in the under-16s, people are going to get hurt.

The only proper answer to this (as I keep saying) is to abandon (for Rugby) the old school groupings and arrange a three-tiered competition in which schools play against other schools with similar Rugby programs (measured primarily by numbers of teams, though other factors could be relevant). That way, your boy at St Aloysius can still thoroughly enjoy the game, competing against players of his own standard and level of commitment, instead of spending his Saturdays standing behind the posts waiting for another attempted conversion.

If you're worried about size in the Sydney schools comp, you'd thank the good lord that Aloy's/Trinity/Cranbrook aren't playing in the Brisbane GPS competition. I coach an u13 side in the Brisbane GPS competition as well as a side in the Brisbane Junior Rugby Union at 13 we have young Pasifika kids who are over 90kg and over 6ft and wear size 14 shoes! The mismatch is laughable, we have one white kid in our side, he is a scrum half wouldn't be much over 45kg and 150cm and the little bugger constantly throws himself in front of these big pasifika kids with the obvious consequences. In the two seasons i have coached him he has suffered a broken collar bone from the force of trying to tackle what is essentially a grown man and 2 concussions again due to being bumped by a kid twice his size and hitting his head on the ground. It is kids like this that we we loose due to the size discrepancy that plague's junior rugby here in Qld. The little white boy is an outstanding talent but is destined to be lost to the game due to size difference in the early teenage years.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

If you're worried about size in the Sydney schools comp, you'd thank the good lord that Aloy's/Trinity/Cranbrook aren't playing in the Brisbane GPS competition. I coach an u13 side in the Brisbane GPS competition as well as a side in the Brisbane Junior Rugby Union at 13 we have young Pasifika kids who are over 90kg and over 6ft and wear size 14 shoes! The mismatch is laughable, we have one white kid in our side, he is a scrum half wouldn't be much over 45kg and 150cm and the little bugger constantly throws himself in front of these big pasifika kids with the obvious consequences. In the two seasons i have coached him he has suffered a broken collar bone from the force of trying to tackle what is essentially a grown man and 2 concussions again due to being bumped by a kid twice his size and hitting his head on the ground. It is kids like this that we we loose due to the size discrepancy that plague's junior rugby here in Qld. The little white boy is an outstanding talent but is destined to be lost to the game due to size difference in the early teenage years.

you really think it is different in Sydney?

 

[Greenwhiteblack]

you really think it is different in Sydney?

100%. I doubt you can afford a private school education on a scaffolders wage. Brisbane/Gold Coast have that many Islanders in the rugby community and almost all of the kids who are at the GPS schools are there on scholarships of some variety. I dont believe that many Islanders live in Sydney based on my schooling at Knox in the 90's.

 

[Albi]

What a real shame, back to the dark ages for everyone!

Some people never learn.

It wouldn’t surprise me if GPS want this and it has nothing to do with CAS. I hope the CAS schools are able to find games for everyone which are competitive (and safe) for all players each week in a H&A format.

 

[Albi]

100%. I doubt you can afford a private school education on a scaffolders wage. Brisbane/Gold Coast have that many Islanders in the rugby community and almost all of the kids who are at the GPS schools are there on scholarships of some variety. I dont believe that many Islanders live in Sydney based on my schooling at Knox in the 90's.

A lot has changed since the ‘90s in Sydney private school rugby-there are a lot more islander and league players running around. Probably a bigger issue in qld but similiar issue here. I gotta say though that there are also some massive white kids. I watched 2 14 year old schoolboy games last Sat and in both, my guess is that the biggest white kid weighed 120kg and the lightest maybe 50kg, and we’re playing on the same field. A school is going to get sued one day for allowing this.

 

[Props are People too]

A lot has changed since the ‘90s in Sydney private school rugby-there are a lot more islander and league players running around. Probably a bigger issue in qld but similiar issue here. I gotta say though that there are also some massive white kids. I watched 2 14 year old schoolboy games last Sat and in both, my guess is that the biggest white kid weighed 120kg and the lightest maybe 50kg, and we’re playing on the same field. A school is going to get sued one day for allowing this.

Agree - the SJRU has a process for placing larger kids into the age group above (mandatory at certain weight / height) but for schools it is at their discretion.

 

[Goosestep]

Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.

I totally disagree. Rugby is global game, played through Europe and Asia.. It’s not the nationality of the boys that’s the problem it’s the lack of rugby culture at the school.. Don’t tell me Lebanese and Greek kids wouldn’t play rugby, when the NRL team that surrounds the Trinity campus (aka the bulldogs ) main supporter base comes from those ethnic backgrounds!

 

[Bob_Jones]

Agree - the SJRU has a process for placing larger kids into the age group above (mandatory at certain weight / height) but for schools it is at their discretion.

Hi PAPT - whilst the SJRU has guidelines, they are far from mandatory and involve various subjective assessments. We have players in our team who are well over the 2nd standard deviation published in the SJRU guidelines and haven’t been requested to play up an age group (they were measured and weighed at the season opening grading games and again at State Champs). Asking around at club rugby on the weekend (at the 2 clubs I am involved with) and no one had actually ever seen a case of someone being moved up.

 

[Bob_Jones]

Same, heard from a parent who’s on the committee at New. So not 100% confirmed.

Kings parents and players at our club have been told by the school that is what is happening next year.

 

[Lindommer]

If you're worried about size in the Sydney schools comp, you'd thank the good lord that Aloy's/Trinity/Cranbrook aren't playing in the Brisbane GPS competition. I coach an u13 side in the Brisbane GPS competition as well as a side in the Brisbane Junior Rugby Union at 13 we have young Pasifika kids who are over 90kg and over 6ft and wear size 14 shoes! The mismatch is laughable, we have one white kid in our side, he is a scrum half wouldn't be much over 45kg and 150cm....................

"The mismatch is laughable", and dangerous.

Years ago I was an official at a junior rugby club in Sydney while my wife was the registrar. There was a goodly number of Pasifika boys at that club, a lot of whom had their ages challenged by other clubs. Many times I felt for their opponents as they were massively disadvantaged by size. There was a dispensation in the SJRU for players to go down an age group if they weighed less than an anointed figure on an appointed early season date. I encouraged smaller boys to take advantage of this rule, most did. At SJRU meetings I strongly advocated for a similar rule for larger boys to be directed to go up an age group if they weighed more than a certain amount on that early season date. This would result in those larger boys being physically challenged rather than running over smaller, 45kg halfbacks who give up the game because they aren't enjoying their rugby.

Isn't there some sort of sliding age/weight qualification in New Zealand, something along the lines of the old 6st 7lb/7st 7lb divisions in junior rugby league?

 

[bring back rucking]

That’s a concern. Do we think CAS subsequently reverts to 2 rounds as well? Difficult scheduling with Alloys not playing in the 14 or 15a’s rounds this year and fielding 9 teams in total

 

[FoleyBealeFolau]

Bit of a late one haven't had much time but had the pleasure of going down to the reopening of Hordern Oval and watched Cranbrook seconds win the comp undefeated for the first time in some 60 odd years. Cranbrook ones Vs Alloys finished as expected but Alloys turned up to play and never really gave up but Cranbrook ended up being too strong for them 2 tries for leaving player Nosa Obaskei 1 For Noah Jackson 1 for year 10 Boy Jaxson Allen. Manus Bailey had his hand in almost all scoring efforts For Alloys truly is some player. I think with Cranbrook having a quite a young team this year and coming of a young side winning the CAS Seconds comp The boys in white could be somewhat competitive next year.
see you boys next year
Rugby League

 

[Snort]

I totally disagree. Rugby is global game, played through Europe and Asia.. It’s not the nationality of the boys that’s the problem it’s the lack of rugby culture at the school.. Don’t tell me Lebanese and Greek kids wouldn’t play rugby, when the NRL team that surrounds the Trinity campus (aka the bulldogs ) main supporter base comes from those ethnic backgrounds!

Well, I was there, and I promise you that Papadopoulos and Savvides and Heliodoniotis and Velios and Pavlides all preferred soccer. There were, of course, boys from Greek backgrounds who played Rugby, but they were far outnumbered by the soccer players who wanted to play the code they grew up with.

 

[Snort]

I'd say it would have to - how else will they fill the gaps without GPS games?

More ISA games?

 

[JackJill]

Likewise, I enjoyed going to watch my sons ISA school go up against some of the heavy hitting GPS schools. Most games would be not so tight but the games we did win, the smiles on all the boys faces and the ego that "We beat Joeys" or "We beat Kings" would have them pumped for the next month. Sad to see them throwing this away, it created such great way of implementing schools from all associations and divisions to show them what they got.

 

[Goosestep]

Well, I was there, and I promise you that Papadopoulos and Savvides and Heliodoniotis and Velios and Pavlides all preferred soccer. There were, of course, boys from Greek backgrounds who played Rugby, but they were far outnumbered by the soccer players who wanted to play the code they grew up with.

You don’t think Newington, Scot’s or Waverley don’t have boys with similar backgrounds too? ..cause they definitely do !!
they also have catchment areas that compete with trinity (I see the Scot’s bus go through Rockdale and san Souci on my way home from work ) … The difference is theses schools rugby culture is historically very strong, and they continue to work at keep it that way.

 

[Bob_Jones]

I'd say it would have to - how else will they fill the gaps without GPS games?

I think it means that there is no option other than a merged CAS / ISA divisional rugby comp (presumable Grammar and High could also be invited). You can’t have Aloys playing Barker, Knox and Waverley twice per season. That won’t benefit anyone.

 

[Props are People too]

I think it means that there is no option other than a merged CAS / ISA divisional rugby comp (presumable Grammar and High could also be invited). You can’t have Aloys playing Barker, Knox and Waverley twice per season. That won’t benefit anyone.

I know the Knox boys at least are happy about the prospect of a home and away CAS - 2 bites of the cherry against Barker and Waverley. Plus Trinty and Cranbrook should be strong in the next couple of years given some quality players coming through and a good year for Cranbrook this year. May be less enticing for Aloys.

Hopefully the insular GPS folk will come to the table on some form of Sydney championship at the end of it. An American style Rugby Bowl.

 

[bring back rucking]

I know the Knox boys at least are happy about the prospect of a home and away CAS - 2 bites of the cherry against Barker and Waverley. Plus Trinty and Cranbrook should be strong in the next couple of years given some quality players coming through and a good year for Cranbrook this year. May be less enticing for Aloys.

Hopefully the insular GPS folk will come to the table on some form of Sydney championship at the end of it. An American style Rugby Bowl.

So has the 2 rounds actually been tabled by CAS or has the news of GPS reverting to home and away caught them by surprise?

 

[Props are People too]

No idea, but given how closely the rugby masters work together presume they knows it was on the cards. Incidentally Knox is taking its 1sts and 2nds on a pre season tour of New Zealand next April so at least they will get some good trial games jn.