CAS Rugby 2011

[Snort]

A lacklustre Trinity up over Waverley: 24 - 15.

Yes, but credit to Waverley. They were pretty one-dimensional but their forwards had an edge over Trinity in the set pieces, and they kept on trying all game. Unfortunately, although their forwards were often able to put several phases together, they couldn't make much ground doing it, and there was no penetration in the backs. Both tries came from kicks that were chased hard and drew surprisingly basic errors from good Trinity players. Pat Sio fumbled the first one (which allowed Waverley back after Trinity opened up a 14-0 lead) and Jack Debreczini was initially under no pressure at all when he waited to see whether an aimless kick would roll over the tryline. He was wrongfooted when it didn't and then fumbled and the chasing Waverley player dived on the loose ball.

Waverley probably played as well as they could. I doubt Trinity would say the same. They're still not good at holding possession for extended periods. But their defence is really tough (Morsello made some ferocious tackles) and the team is full of damgerous runners. Today it was mostly the forwards who did the damage, with Cook, Mae and Sio all making hard, determined charges up the middle. Debreczini always looked a threat when he had the ball in hand. He had a mixed game: he missed a couple of simple shots for penalty goal, but kicked three conversions from out wide. At one stage he butchered a big overlap with an inexplicable chip kick, and then there was his defensive howler. Still he looked a class above most players on the field.

So, after seven games, Trinity has won 7, Knox 5 and Waverley 4. Mathematically all three could win at least a share of the premiership. Realistically Waverley is out of it - even if they win their last three (including Knox) they need Trinity and Knox to lose games. Trinity will need to improve on today's showing to beat Knox. But you'd back them to win one of the last three to ensure at least a share of the title. Which makes it interesting for Knox. If they win all three, which is not out of the question, they need Trinity to lose to either Barker or St Aloysius.

If you had to bet on it, you'd say Trinity. They need to sharpen up after today, but they may be getting some injured players back, which might be timely.

 

[Man on the hill]

Today was the classic good team playing badly - Trinity never looked like landing the proverbial knock out punch. Thought Trinity were also lucky to finish without any cards - the ref was very patient with repeat offence & surprisingly lax with his interpretation of "arms" in the tackle.

 

[Casnovian]

Have to agree. I sometimes wonder if the TGS coaches don't have a cunning plan;

1. Throw discipline out the window (someone said penalty count 28 to 4 or something like that today).
2. Then don't try too hard with line outs.

Equals - the team will be tackling a heck of a lot more (not a bad thing in one respect). Which they do to their credit. Seems a hard way to win a game though. Week after week.

One day - hopefully soon - they will put it all together.

An interesting aspect competition wise is that Knox will be playing Mudgee @ Mudgee in the Waratah Shield and have to do so by August 5. Barker will probably play their match midweek with Alos.

Next few weeks will be interesting.

 

[rugby eye]

in all honesty gentlemen from what i saw both waverly tries were just from bad handling errors and the sixthteenth waverly player, being the ref kept trinity from another 20 points. With this said should be a cracker when they face knox next with scarano to have little more confidence..

 

[Man on the hill]

in all honesty gentlemen from what i saw both waverly tries were just from bad handling errors and the sixthteenth waverly player, being the ref kept trinity from another 20 points. With this said should be a cracker when they face knox next with scarano to have little more confidence..

Correct re the 2 tries - but not handling errors, poor defensive execution / decisions.

Not correct re the 16th man - as I observed in a previous post; lack of enforcement of "arms" in the tackle and lack of action for repeat offence (particularly at the breakdown) both favoured Trinity - my read was that Trinity should / could have had multiple cards.

Agreed, the Knox game is shaping up as a ripper.

 

[Casnovian]

Not correct re the 16th man -
Agreed, the Knox game is shaping up as a ripper.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I have had the opportunity for whatever reason to see TGS play their last three games. Cranbrook, Newington and Waverly. In each occassion they were "caned" by the referee in each of the games. So I really don't believe the ref is the root cause of the problem.

The players will tell you there are continued repeated errors in the ruck - e.g.forwards going off their feet and this happening consistently. The players know what the issues are as well as who are the repeat offenders. I understand there is frustration rising within their ranks.

Same with the shoulder and grass cuts (twas not long a go they were coached to do).Some stern dressing downs have occurred and look forward to seeing that issue to have been addressed and put to rest.

I know more than few read this forum. So hopefully they take it on board.

To paraphrase Einstein - the definition of insanity - doing the same the thing and expecting things to change!

Look forward to Waves Vs Knox next week - Waves won first round. Will be a close match.

Then Knox vs Trinity - if all goes well TGS will have three of their regular first XV back on deck that week (didn't play Knox last round). Clunies- Ross expected back at fullback. Certainly will be a cracker

 

[Man on the hill]

....Then Knox vs Trinity - if all goes well TGS will have three of their regular first XV back on deck that week (didn't play Knox last round). Clunies- Ross expected back at fullback. Certainly will be a cracker

Do you really think they will pick Clunies-Ross straight back into the 1sts without any hitouts beforehand? It would have to be 8 - 10 weeks since he was injured - that's a big lay off.

 

[Casnovian]

Do you really think they will pick Clunies-Ross straight back into the 1sts without any hitouts beforehand? It would have to be 8 - 10 weeks since he was injured - that's a big lay off.

I understand he may play Barker next week. there is a Trinity Barbarian style team playing the Japanese school this week. I wouldn't be surprised he eases himself back in that way for a quarter or so. No one is letting on who is in that team - not too many First XV I believe.

 

[Man on the hill]

I understand he may play Barker next week. there is a Trinity Barbarian style team playing the Japanese school this week. I wouldn't be surprised he eases himself back in that way for a quarter or so. No one is letting on who is in that team - not too many First XV I believe.

Not that Barbarian - heard it was 16As, perhaps with age eligible boys back from 1st XV

 

[rockon]

Man on the hill, you are wrong again. The trinity teams are putting up an opens barbarians team and a under 16 team. Check your facts before posting wrong information on this forum. Shame

 

[Snort]

Wholeheartedly agree.

I have had the opportunity for whatever reason to see TGS play their last three games. Cranbrook, Newington and Waverly. In each occassion they were "caned" by the referee in each of the games. So I really don't believe the ref is the root cause of the problem. The players will tell you there are continued repeated errors in the ruck - e.g.forwards going off their feet and this happening consistently. The players know what the issues are as well as who are the repeat offenders. I understand there is frustration rising within their ranks.

For what it's worth, my take on it is this. Trinity has one decent lineout jumper. They won't pick him, I suppose because he offers less around the field than Hazell. So they rarely win a lineout, and the ball they win isn't clean. What that means is that they play up to 80% of the game without the ball. In this year's CAS competition, they can get away with this because (a) their defence is superb and (b) they have a terrific collection of dangerous runners in both the forwards and backs. But it also means that they give away a heap of penalties because any side does that essentially plays without the ball and relies on turnovers to gain possession. That, and the fact that their discipline isn't always great. The standard of schools refereeing isn't that high overall, but I don't think Trinity had much cause for complaint yesterday.

Trinity has been smashing its opponents in the CAS this year without having all that much of the ball. It would be interesting to see what they could do if they could win a decent share of the ball and put together some periods of sustained pressure. As it is, they tackle for ten minutes, get a turnover, and score. It's crazy, illogical football, but fun to watch - and the limitations of this approach were shown up by Riverview.

If I were coaching Knox, I'd just get my backs to spend the first half hour of the Trinity game kicking for the corners. Then I'd just keep possession down in Trinity's quarter. Probably this isn't a try-scoring strategy - Trinity's defence is too good for that. But they will give away penalties, and Knox should kick for goal. There's no shame in being 12-0 up on penalties. Plus there's the chance that someone will get sin-binned, as happened (twice) in the Trinity-Newington game. This kind of attritional game is probably Knox's best chance. It will be interesting to see whether they decide to go that way and, if so, whether they have the discipline to carry out that game plan.

 

[Man on the hill]

Man on the hill, you are wrong again. The trinity teams are putting up an opens barbarians team and a under 16 team. Check your facts before posting wrong information on this forum. Shame

dear rockhead - Posted what i had been told! Wrong again? So what. Keep smiling!

 

[Man on the hill]

... they can get away with this because (a) their defence is superb and (b) they have a terrific collection of dangerous runners in both the forwards and backs.

And (c) some great scavengers - very aggressive / assertive at the breakdown. And (d) They have also learnt the art of offensive (as opposed to defensive) tackling leading to some spilt ball turnovers. Of course this is only an opinion.

 

[Casnovian]

dear rockhead - Posted what i had been told! Wrong again? So what. Keep smiling!

The current intel is that there is a mixture of ages in the Japanese touring squad. They had a cancelled match with 16cs at Waverly yesterday. Two matches today vs SJRU - understand SJRU Under 15s waltzed through - beating them 60 to 0 or something like that. Under 16s SJRU were more evenly matched and won by two tries or so. May not have the size - very quick my informants told me. However a number of the SJRU squad did not play - particularly the ones who played in Trinity firsts yesterday and a few players still carrying injuries Malaki, Junior and Jake. Japanese team were in awe of Malaki's size (with boot). Understand another match may be lined up with Knox under 16s next weekend.

In regards to Snort's observation - yes to all of you are saying. BUT? What if it all came together (eradicate the rubbish) and they get more than 50% of the possession. Would have to nudge the ton??

 

[baldingwingforward]

BUT? What if it all came together (eradicate the rubbish) and they get more than 50% of the possession. Would have to nudge the ton??

You're dreaming mate! Trinity are doing ok this year but they not that good! As i said previously i reckon the only GPS sides they would be capable of beating this year are Grammar and maybe Kings. I reckon they would struggle against all of the rest and Scots and View would smash them!

 

[Snort]

You're dreaming mate! Trinity are doing ok this year but they not that good! As i said previously i reckon the only GPS sides they would be capable of beating this year are Grammar and maybe Kings. I reckon they would struggle against all of the rest and Scots and View would smash them!

bwf - a couple of points. First, I think 7 wins from 7 is a touch better than "doing ok". I'm not sure that Trinity wouldn't do better in the GPS than you suggest, though they were certainly a long way off the pace against Riverview. But Riverview are 3 from 3 in the GPs, so losing to them is no disgrace (I discount the Trinity-Newington game since both sides were so far understrength).

The real point, though, is the standard of the opposition in the CAS. In a number of games this year, Trinity has had maybe 30% of the ball yet put fifty points or so on their opposition. I don't mean to diminish Trinity's performance if I suggest that this isn't a vintage year for CAS overall.

That said, I don't think Trinity is the kind of side that could run up a huge score (the way some Joeys sides of the past would). To do that you need a level of clinical efficiency. For all their many strengths, Trinity is not a clinically efficient side.

 

[meathead]

bwf - a couple of points. First, I think 7 wins from 7 is a touch better than "doing ok". I'm not sure that Trinity wouldn't do better in the GPS than you suggest, though they were certainly a long way off the pace against Riverview. But Riverview are 3 from 3 in the GPs, so losing to them is no disgrace (I discount the Trinity-Newington game since both sides were so far understrength).

The real point, though, is the standard of the opposition in the CAS. In a number of games this year, Trinity has had maybe 30% of the ball yet put fifty points or so on their opposition. I don't mean to diminish Trinity's performance if I suggest that this isn't a vintage year for CAS overall.

That said, I don't think Trinity is the kind of side that could run up a huge score (the way some Joeys sides of the past would). To do that you need a level of clinical efficiency. For all their many strengths, Trinity is not a clinically efficient side.

30% ??? Really ???
I highly doubt it

 

[Snort]

30% ??? Really ???
I highly doubt it

Meathead, in the games I've seen 30% is actually a generous estimate. Against St Aloysius, for example, Trinity was up by thirty odd points at half time even though the lineout count would have been something like 12-0 against them and the penalties much the same and the rucks and mauls hugely in Aloysius' favour (they did come home with a wet sail to win two lineouts in the second half, but actually didn't score as many points).

The way they are playing defies rugby logic. It just happens that this year their strengths are such that they can do this without much ball. Against better opposition (or maybe opponents who play smarter), they wouldn't do so well.

 

[accountblue]

Cranbrook 2nds over the undefeated knox side: 8-5

 

[gilbertt]

The real point, though, is the standard of the opposition in the CAS. In a number of games this year, Trinity has had maybe 30% of the ball yet put fifty points or so on their opposition. I don't mean to diminish Trinity's performance if I suggest that this isn't a vintage year for CAS overall.

the only team that they've really put 50 on is the weakest side in CAS the cranbrook team so saying that is no real feat for trinity and i agree they wouldn't match up to well against stronger gps teams like view and scots