Canes v Reds @ TheCakeTin

[gel]

I have no idea what i mean.

I am angry drunk now.

Rawr.

 

[Country Kid]

Several disappointing things about the Reds....

Too many missed tackles (balanced to some extent by desperate scrambling defence).

Lack of 'starch' in their tackling technique- very few offensive tackles with the shoulders.

Kicking without purpose, or just poor kicking - allowed the Canes to run and run. Kicks that found touch were ineffective because the Canes took quick lineouts.

Slow ball, runners were consistently caught well behind the gain line - in part because Genia took one or two steps backwards before passing.

Some positives...

Both Reds tries were well constructed - nice straight running into gaps for the 1st try. And some urgency for the second.

Hope they can get going soon. So much individual talent in the Reds outfit, it is hard to fathom why they aren't firing as a team.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'd respond if I even had a clue what you are on about. But I'll give it a crack, as I am in a generous mood.
Defence coach leaves, defence gets worse, reasonable observation to make.
Oh wait, I'm guessing it's saying the Reds title was marked with an asterisk because it was the RWC year.
Thanks for that if so.
You're nothing if not consistent.

Well, with hindsight, 2011 was also the year the Wallabies won the RC, right? Maybe both were aberrations?

 

[Moono75]

I have no idea what i mean.

I am angry drunk now.

Rawr.

..that's 'rawwwroooorrrraawwwwwwwwwwworrrrrrrr"

 

[redveincheese]

Its a difficult proposition to acknowledge any positives at this stage of proceedings. My hat off to James Slipper tonight, probably the best game I have seen him play in recent times. It was inspirational, he deserves a gold jumper and will not let us down when the time to represent Australia comes. Cannot honestly say the same for any other reds player. Such a disappointing year and really only 2015 to look forward to for super rugby anyway. No way the team will improve until some serious questions are asked and answered with complete honesty.

 

[Moono75]

Its a difficult proposition to acknowledge any positives at this stage of proceedings. My hat off to James Slipper tonight, probably the best game I have seen him play in recent times. It was inspirational, he deserves a gold jumper and will not let us down when the time to represent Australia comes. Cannot honestly say the same for any other reds player. Such a disappointing year and really only 2015 to look forward to for super rugby anyway. No way the team will improve until some serious questions are asked and answered with complete honesty.

What about Horwills 100th! Had to be a motivation surely.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Browning is now the best 8 in QLD. I think I heard the commentator say something like, "The Reds now have a big strong man at 8." It's immediately noticeable how much better in contact he is than Jake.

Taps and CFS need to be out centers. Enough said, surely.

Ben Daley looked completely out of his depth.

When Frisby came on, he was far more creative around the ruck. He ever did a few run arounds with Quade. Is Will not fast enough off the mark to do this?

Will did some pretty good box kicking tonight.

Rod Davies does not have the fundamental skills.

Chibba Hanson is the best rake in QLD.

That'll do me.

Only saw bits of the game but Browning caught the eye each time, which never really happens with Shatz.

 

[No4918]

With LFG back this week it is going to present an interesting call for Dick to make. Browning and Robinson deserve to be in the 23. Who of Quirk and Shatz makes way for them? If Dick doesn't have the kahunas to make the decision it will be a balls up.

And how far away is Turner? Could have done with him in the last few weeks.

 

[Juan Cote]

The problems are there for all to see. There is no leadership and no desire to do what is required to compete let alone win.
The team is now in free fall, and with nothing more than the death march of the next 7 games to go, prepare for far worse than last night if nothing changes.
2014 is the culmination of lazy decision making and poor standards that seem to have set in the minute the plan was hatched to get Link to the Wallaby job by bringing in Graham to 'learn the Reds way' before Graham took over.
What fucking rot!
The place is a shambles and needs the cleaners put through it.
We are talking about a core group of people who are highly paid professionals who need to own up and accept the current shitfight as their making and either get on with setting right, or get the fuck out.
I don't think Richard Graham is up to the task. The players don't believe in what they are doing and hence, do nothing well.
The organisation needs leadership and that is what Carmichael is paid for. It's time he started earning his coin and have some fairly difficult chats come Monday week when the team is back from NZ.

 

[USARugger]

Yeah that freeloader Carmichael better start doing his job

How are we gauging whether or not he's had talks with Richard Graham which literally no one on this board would be privy to, again?

 

[Juan Cote]

It was reported last week that Graham still retained Carmichael's confidence. That's hardly surprising though as Carmichael was the person most responsible for bringing Graham to the Reds.

 

[USARugger]

It was reported last week that Graham still retained Carmichael's confidence. That's hardly surprising though as Carmichael was the person most responsible for bringing Graham to the Reds.

I'm leaning towards that being the prototypical sports organization press that we've all been reading for a collective millenia.

If there are issues within the Reds' organization I seriously doubt m(any) of us will know what actually happened until it is already said and done.

Calling for someone to "do their job" (someone who was an enormous part of reviving the Reds to begin with) because of something you think they may or may not have done but have absolutely no way of providing any actual evidence for either side is a bit silly, don't you think?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As soon as a CEO says publicly the coach has his full support you know he's history

 

[FrankLind]

When the Canes were in possession, it was like the All Blacks vs Japan.

The Reds are shit.
Cooper showing all the frailties of yesteryear and Genia was average.

Canes should have won by 20+.

Logged on this morning intending to apologize for my provoking (I'd had a few yesterday), but when I read my post, aside from the Japan remark, I stand by it. Canes should have won by 20+ but for some poor handling(pushed passes) and Barrett's missed kicks. There is no way the Reds will be in the top six.

 

[Juan Cote]

I'm leaning towards that being the prototypical sports organization press that we've all been reading for a collective millenia.

If there are issues within the Reds' organization I seriously doubt m(any) of us will know what actually happened until it is already said and done.

Calling for someone to "do their job" (someone who was an enormous part of reviving the Reds to begin with) because of something you think they may or may not have done but have absolutely no way of providing any actual evidence for either side is a bit silly, don't you think?

Not half as silly as sitting idly by and watching the whole thing go down the toilet.
The evidence is quite clear, if you are in doubt re-watch last night's game.

 

[Ruggo]

Seems some people have gotten comfortable in their jobs.

 

[RedsHappy]

Not half as silly as sitting idly by and watching the whole thing go down the toilet.
The evidence is quite clear, if you are in doubt re-watch last night's game.

Cote - I expect the marker for 'change will come' or 'excuses will come', and thus in the latter case the elevation of corporate ego above the fan-paying public (us) that funds it all, to be whether we see imminent leaks starting to 'friendly' media that centre upon the 'problems of the players not delivering and the playing roster being tired and in need of change'.

If so, we will I suspect see the rationale for 2014's/RG's fallings being one that's 'poor player and players not delivering' related rather than management and coaching related and so RG will be 'strongly supported by the QRU board to rebuild the team for future years and a much better performance in 2015'. And so on.

(The above scenario of vaguely plausible excuses being shunted upon the shoulders of the players and their histories parallels closely what we saw when Deans' performances became highly questionable in late 2009 and into 2010. The ARU used its media acolytes to shift the responsibility away from Deans and onto 'the strategic need to develop depth with younger players as we build towards the 2011 RWC'. We all saw just how credible and genuine that all was when we got to the 2011 RWC.)

We Reds fans/customers will soon see what McCall and Carmichael are made of. All institutions make mistakes. The ones that survive and prosper are typically the ones that have the courage and integrity to own up to them, fix them quickly, and not make the same one twice.

 

[cyclopath]

@Juan Cote is spot on.
As an outsider (read: Tahs fan, but don't hold it against me) the things that characterised the Reds in latter 2010 then 2011 (and still in 2012) were a well organised defensive line where everyone seemed to know where to be (including Quade shuffling in and out - an added layer of complexity), abrasive and aggressive but accurate forwards at the breakdown (committing when they needed, winning turnovers but not over-committing), a serviceable scrum without being a weapon, and a very good lineout. They counter-attacked well, but also kicked pretty well tactically.
Now, the defensive line is, at times, a shambles where players either don't know where to be, or don't trust the blokes beside them, the breakdown work is less accurate but not terrible, the scrum struggles with certain personnel on the park. Of these issues, the most glaring is the defence. The 2011 Reds would shred this team.
Obviously losing players like Samo make a difference, Ioane as well (2011 Ioane was a key element running off Quade) and some "pillars" are not as strong as they were - Horwill (but getting better, which is good), Genia (service from the base and kicking below his par), Ant Fainga'a et al.
As an Aussie rugby fan, I take no joy in the decline of a powerhouse team, and can spot under-achievement at 1000 yards, being a Tahs fan.
The players are good enough to be a top 6 team, but the team isn't, and the coaching structures have to be seriously questioned.

 

[mst]

@Juan Cote is spot on.
As an outsider (read: Tahs fan, but don't hold it against me) the things that characterised the Reds in latter 2010 then 2011 (and still in 2012) were a well organised defensive line where everyone seemed to know where to be (including Quade shuffling in and out - an added layer of complexity), abrasive and aggressive but accurate forwards at the breakdown (committing when they needed, winning turnovers but not over-committing), a serviceable scrum without being a weapon, and a very good lineout. They counter-attacked well, but also kicked pretty well tactically.
Now, the defensive line is, at times, a shambles where players either don't know where to be, or don't trust the blokes beside them, the breakdown work is less accurate but not terrible, the scrum struggles with certain personnel on the park. Of these issues, the most glaring is the defence. The 2011 Reds would shred this team.
Obviously losing players like Samo make a difference, Ioane as well (2011 Ioane was a key element running off Quade) and some "pillars" are not as strong as they were - Horwill (but getting better, which is good), Genia (service from the base and kicking below his par), Ant Fainga'a et al.
As an Aussie rugby fan, I take no joy in the decline of a powerhouse team, and can spot under-achievement at 1000 yards, being a Tahs fan.
The players are good enough to be a top 6 team, but the team isn't, and the coaching structures have to be seriously questioned.

At some point all teams need to have a reality check and realise you cant keep living in the past and trading on past glory. Reputation, known names and how it looks on paper is meaningless - Remember the (awful) Brumbies of circa 2010-2011. It took a long time before the Brumbies took off the tinted glasses but thank goodness they did. I believe if the Reds act now they wont have a few years of catch up, they will be back near the top next season.

 

[boyo]

As soon as a CEO says publicly the coach has his full support you know he's history

Yes, minister