Canberra Vikings - Offical NRC Team Thread

[Grant Jones]

I'll be cheering for NSW Country and the Stars based on the Country team being where a few Easts players are playing and the Stars based on their home ground being relatively close to home.

I'll enjoy the fact that all of you will be cheering for Ita Vaea in the Country team hoping he goes really well!

Don't get your hopes up about Ita, I really hope he does well, but he played second grade against us on the weekend and he is a shadow if the former player he was. I think it will take longer than this NRC season to get back to his best!

 

[Grant Jones]

I think people are making a mistake looking at the NRC and thinking what does this team have to do with the club rugby side I follow and determining their level of support based on that.

Rugby fans should be thinking that there isn't a 3rd tier team that they follow because it's a brand new competition and instead thinking I'm from Canberra (or wherever else) so I'm going to follow the Canberra team.

Yeah true, I'm from NSW country and will follow them, it has Sam Windsor, as much as a connection to me then the Vikings so I will support them! Haha

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah true, I'm from NSW country and will follow them, it has Sam Windsor, as much as a connection to me then the Vikings so I will support them! Haha

Seems like a good solution to your predicament. Look for a positive rather than a negative to take out of this new comp.

 

[Grant Jones]

Seems like a good solution to your predicament. Look for a positive rather than a negative to take out of this new comp.

There are plenty of positives out of this comp and something that is very much needed, it's a shame I couldn't find a reason to support the local team!

 

[mst]

The problem is that based on these selections, there is even less of a chance of Royals or QBN players getting selected in the future, if there is new talent coming out of school or out if town and they are coming here because of an opportunity to play NRC, what club do you think they are going to go and play for? It's been 25 years since royals have won the comp, it will be at least that again if we all get behind this, Tuggers will become so dominate in the local comp that the other clubs will become unsustainable!

I get what you are saying and I believe that on the presumption that the NRC has a season 2 and 3, if local players from local clubs are being overlooked a lot of support will walk away from the NRC team and the Brumbies organisation. This is not only my feeling, but the feeling of people who I have talked to. So I doubt this will happen.

I worry your scepticism is sadly going to hurt the players and people at the club level who desperately want this to work. I look at people like Les Makin who we are finally hearing about and has a better chance at furthering his career, who is from your club, and will be gutted, like many other players seeking and dreaming of an opportunity when support within their own club is not there for the NRC concept, weather is floored or not. I think this will be the single most damaging aspect to ACT and region rugby in the immediate future. Over 500 detractors have already tried to, and have damaged the game over a colour(s) of a jersey, the same colours 4 of the 9 team in the NRC are wearing.

I also think its pretty ironic and sad that I sit here as an outsider with no allegiance to Canberra club rugby am typing words to try to convince you that "we" want you, and others like you to be a part of this NRC concept as you are a voice for local rugby, The QBN club and provide a lot of information to those who are clueless like me.

IMHO, the greatest enemy to the local game is the local clubs and their members attitudes. Yes, its logical and most likely that it will end up heavily influenced by Vikings group, why - well you wont be there, either will many other Canberra club rugby people for similar reasons so its going to be hard for the Vikings group not to go unchecked and down their path without outside influences. If club rugby chooses to protest or voice opinion after the fact the public perception will most likely be that the clubs either undermined the NRC concept or failed to support it. Either way a half decent spin doctor can make the Vikings group come out smelling like roses regardless if the concept succeeds or fails.

So the lines is drawn in the sand to all club rugby in Canberra, the risks are simple and clear. If you wont support your players and the pathways players have been wanting for so long then you will lose them and so will your club. I bet I know where they will go!

So simple put are you going to damn club rugby or are the Vikings group going to do it? I know what the public perception will be and it will always go with those who give the opportunity rather than the critics.

As for the politics etc, and how many player are in the team from each club? Well that will ebb and flow from season to season and one day it may have no Vikings. Rugby is a subjective sport with personalities and a decisions that we don't all agree on. If you want an example today think of Benn Robinson - what has he done to now be overlooked again for the Wallabies when the desperately need prop's? He is experienced, proven performer, fit etc but not in the squad. Unfair? maybe; bias? maybe; should he be in the team? I think so like many others, but that's the way it goes sadly.

The other key point that you make about the influx of new players - isn't that what all clubs wish for? More players wanting to play the game. It's called opportunity and no I don't believe that they will all sign for Vikings. How are they going to get game time if the competition for spot's is so high? No they will go where there is opportunity to get the game time. So are you opening the doors or pointing the way to Tuggies?

 

[Grant Jones]

I get what you are saying and I believe that on the presumption that the NRC has a season 2 and 3, if local players from local clubs are being overlooked a lot of support will walk away from the NRC team and the Brumbies organisation. This is not only my feeling, but the feeling of people who I have talked to. So I doubt this will happen.


The other key point that you make about the influx of new players - isn't that what all clubs wish for? More players wanting to play the game. It's called opportunity and no I don't believe that they will all sign for Vikings. How are they going to get game time if the competition for spot's is so high? No they will go where there is opportunity to get the game time. So are you opening the doors or pointing the way to Tuggies?

I appreciate your views coming from someone with no club connections. It is going to be up to people like you to make this team work. Let me make it very clear that i do not have any issue with the NRC, it is a great concept and an absolute no brainer to have a Canberra team involved. It it just the make up of the Canberra team that has so many people annoyed. As i have said before i totally get the financially reasons why it is a Vikings team, however if they were truly wanting to do the best thing by ACT rugby they would of set up a whole new identity, just as the QBN leagues club did when being the the main drivers behind the founding of the Canberra Raiders. Les knows he has everyone's full support at our club, and hopefully he will get a chance on game day to show people like you, just what he is capable of.

There is one thing that you don't understand and it probably doesn't worry you not being a club rugby supporter, this will be such a bad thing for the other clubs in Canberra, it is not a pathway for other club players to make this squad, it is mainly a pathway for Tuggeranong players to further their rugby careers and therefore the better local players with those aspirations will play for Tuggeranong, making the competition even more uneven then it already is.

I think there is very little risk of the UC Vikings not being successful, they have the money to ensure this is not the case. I put as much blame for this on the Brumbies, for not making a good enough pitch on behalf of community rugby in this region for a totally independent and unbiased team, that would of given players from all clubs an equal opportunity to further their careers.

 

[Slim 293]

I put as much blame for this on the Brumbies, for not making a good enough pitch on behalf of community rugby in this region for a totally independent and unbiased team, that would of given players from all clubs an equal opportunity to further their careers.

Once again, you still haven't backed up this claim other than repeating that a solitary player from Queanbeyan missed out.........

The bias might lie elsewhere here........

 

[Grant Jones]

Once again, you still haven't backed up this claim other than repeating that a solitary player from Queanbeyan missed out...

The bias might lie elsewhere here....

It's not that a single QBN player made the cut, its that a single Royals player made it, only two wests players and a single Gungahlin player. You can not tell me that a combined team from every other club wouldn't have more talent in it than the Tuggeranong club? Because 10 players out of Tuggeranong as opposed to 5 from every other club suggests that.

 

[Slim 293]

It's not that a single QBN player made the cut, its that a single Royals player made it, only two wests players and a single Gungahlin player. You can not tell me that a combined team from every other club wouldn't have more talent in it than the Tuggeranong club? Because 10 players out of Tuggeranong as opposed to 5 from every other club suggests that.

Of the 9 non-Brumby Tuggeranong players who made the cut, who doesn't deserve to be there after another dominant year?

Easts 0 v Tuggeranong 20
Uni-Norths 14 v Tuggeranong 39
Queanbeyan 17 v Tuggeranong 20
Royals 10 v Tuggeranong 26
Tuggeranong 45 v Gungahlin 11
Tuggeranong 33 v Wests 22
Tuggeranong 92 v Easts 0
Tuggeranong 29 v Royals 8
Gungahlin 12 v Tuggeranong 22
Tuggeranong 12 v Queanbeyan 9
Tuggeranong 39 v Uni-Norths 3
Wests 39 v Tuggeranong 31
Tuggeranong 32 v Queanbeyan 33
Tuggeranong 59 v Gungahlin 12

 

[BlueBagger]

It's not that a single QBN player made the cut, its that a single Royals player made it, only two wests players and a single Gungahlin player. You can not tell me that ae combined team from every other club wouldn't have more talent in it than the Tuggeranong club? Because 10 players out of Tuggeranong as opposed to 5 from every other club suggests that.

Grant i think some of your player queries can be justified.
Sione is a great prop and i think a step above the others who may take his place in the next year or 2. However in regards to players like Perry and Racik, their positions were not so clear cut so to go with Perry, or Penca or Smith it wasn't a clear call so they go with youth. Same with Racik at 13. Can you name me another 13 that is clearly the best in the comp?
I had the same thought with Powell over Rolando however they may have seen them as pretty even players so therefore chose the youth.

 

[Braveheart81]

Part of it is clearly about having a good look at young emerging players and seeing how they fare at the next level.

Perry and Powell both started for the JWC side in most games and Perry in particular played very well.

There is probably the thinking that they need to have a look at those guys and work out whether they should be offered Super Rugby contracts in the near future because otherwise they're likely to be offered contracts elsewhere.

The only squads that will ever be selected purely on performance with no thought about ages, combinations etc. are merit type squads that aren't selected to actually play any games.

 

[mst]

I appreciate your views coming from someone with no club connections. It is going to be up to people like you to make this team work. Let me make it very clear that i do not have any issue with the NRC, it is a great concept and an absolute no brainer to have a Canberra team involved. It it just the make up of the Canberra team that has so many people annoyed. As i have said before i totally get the financially reasons why it is a Vikings team, however if they were truly wanting to do the best thing by ACT rugby they would of set up a whole new identity, just as the QBN leagues club did when being the the main drivers behind the founding of the Canberra Raiders. Les knows he has everyone's full support at our club, and hopefully he will get a chance on game day to show people like you, just what he is capable of.

There is one thing that you don't understand and it probably doesn't worry you not being a club rugby supporter, this will be such a bad thing for the other clubs in Canberra, it is not a pathway for other club players to make this squad, it is mainly a pathway for Tuggeranong players to further their rugby careers and therefore the better local players with those aspirations will play for Tuggeranong, making the competition even more uneven then it already is.

I think there is very little risk of the UC Vikings not being successful, they have the money to ensure this is not the case. I put as much blame for this on the Brumbies, for not making a good enough pitch on behalf of community rugby in this region for a totally independent and unbiased team, that would of given players from all clubs an equal opportunity to further their careers.

Thanks Grant. But remember you hold more than power in this than people like me - you have knowledge and are inside of the game.

You see, right now is a demonstration about why you and all ACT and region rugby clubs need to be actively involved and in the middle of all the supporters of the NRC team. Without your voice I would have a clue about your concerns. So in some ways its a chance for you and other to shape our thinking and influence where this all goes (but remember its a double edged sword so careful how you use it as you may cut yourself in half).

As for what Slim is saying, he is correct, but I think this may workout the opposite way you think. You see Tuggers is established and successful, but there is clear enough support to show that people don't want it to be all about Tuggies. So I am pretty sure that they will be forced to spread the love around and I think "we" supporters alike can make that happen.

Now also I believe this issue is not exclusive to you or ACT & region clubs and will soon be a hot topic in public forums. For example and I hope Braveheart or TWAS can correct me if I am wrong, but there is the same rhetoric around Sydney Stars who some are now referring to as the "Sydney Uni Stars". From the bit of the story I can piece together their squad (extended) of 43 is made up of Soup players, Sydney Uni players and 4 Balmain players.

One thing I would like to understand is if the clubs are so concerned and not happy about the tuggies set up, why haven't they taken the high road and put out a clear unified media statement of intent saying that they will support the NRC concept fully, but it it detrimental to the club or local comps. or strips them of players etc they will walk away from the concept and Tuggies involvement in comps at all levels?

 

[SammyP]

I have been reading about this argument ever since the name of the team was announced. Sadly I don't think those against Vikings will be converted any time soon, it seems to me you have more chance of getting a Brumbies fan to support the Tahs than a Wests/Easts/Qbn/Royals etc etc fan to support a team that the Vikings has anything to do with, no matter what the cost to Rugby in Canberra.
I am a proud Canberran, a rare thing I know. I love my rugby and will support any team that represents my town. I hope enough other neutral rugby fans feel the same way se can keep the NRC team and possibly get another.
Bought my 4 game ticket today, will be at each game loud and proud.

 

[Braveheart81]

The good clubs around the country dominate the players selected in NRC teams.

Likewise the good Super Rugby squads dominate the Wallabies. It's a fact of life.

... and before someone mentions that the Wallabies were dominated by Waratahs players when the Waratahs were performing poorly a few years ago, well that's why the Wallabies sucked. Many of the best players in the country weren't performing nearly to their ability.

 

[mst]

I have been reading about this argument ever since the name of the team was announced. Sadly I don't think those against Vikings will be converted any time soon, it seems to me you have more chance of getting a Brumbies fan to support the Tahs than a Wests/Easts/Qbn/Royals etc etc fan to support a team that the Vikings has anything to do with, no matter what the cost to Rugby in Canberra.
I am a proud Canberran, a rare thing I know. I love my rugby and will support any team that represents my town. I hope enough other neutral rugby fans feel the same way se can keep the NRC team and possibly get another.
Bought my 4 game ticket today, will be at each game loud and proud.

I like the attitude and will see you there. If others take the same attitude and want Tuggies Group to pay attention then give them things to stress about. A lot of supporters at the home games year one is awesome - which will put them on notice how many supporters they can alienate if they don't have genuine motives from year two onwards. I can guarantee the papers will run that story!

 

[Grant Jones]

Of the 9 non-Brumby Tuggeranong players who made the cut, who doesn't deserve to be there after another dominant year?

Easts 0 v Tuggeranong 20
Uni-Norths 14 v Tuggeranong 39
Queanbeyan 17 v Tuggeranong 20
Royals 10 v Tuggeranong 26
Tuggeranong 45 v Gungahlin 11
Tuggeranong 33 v Wests 22
Tuggeranong 92 v Easts 0
Tuggeranong 29 v Royals 8
Gungahlin 12 v Tuggeranong 22
Tuggeranong 12 v Queanbeyan 9
Tuggeranong 39 v Uni-Norths 3
Wests 39 v Tuggeranong 31
Tuggeranong 32 v Queanbeyan 33
Tuggeranong 59 v Gungahlin 12

Waratahs have had a similarly dominate seasons, I don't see 66% of the Wallabies squad being Waratahs though. Actually the second best team have the same amount of players. The score lines against all teams except for uni and easts and gungahlin last week wouldn't suggest that Tuggeranong had that many more quality players than them. And i might be biased here but we beat them once by a point and lost twice by 3 points, yet have one player in the squad compared to 10?

 

[Braveheart81]

Waratahs have had a similarly dominate seasons, I don't see 66% of the Wallabies squad being Waratahs though. Actually the second best team have the same amount of players. The score lines against all teams except for uni and easts and gungahlin last week wouldn't suggest that Tuggeranong had that many more quality players than them. And i might be biased here but we beat them once by a point and lost twice by 3 points, yet have one player in the squad compared to 10?

But didn't most of the sides other than Tuggeranong feature Brumbies squad members who rarely played for the Brumbies?

 

[Grant Jones]

But didn't most of the sides other than Tuggeranong feature Brumbies squad members who rarely played for the Brumbies?

We have never had a Brumbies player play for us against Tuggers this year, had Coleman for a game and Leon for one as well. It might of been the same game against Uni actually. But generally teams would be lucky to have one maybe two at a time!

 

[Grant Jones]

The good clubs around the country dominate the players selected in NRC teams.

Likewise the good Super Rugby squads dominate the Wallabies. It's a fact of life.

... and before someone mentions that the Wallabies were dominated by Waratahs players when the Waratahs were performing poorly a few years ago, well that's why the Wallabies sucked. Many of the best players in the country weren't performing nearly to their ability.

The Waratahs have never dominated a Wallabies squad with 66% during Super Rugby from what i can remember.

 

[Grant Jones]

Grant i think some of your player queries can be justified.
Sione is a great prop and i think a step above the others who may take his place in the next year or 2. However in regards to players like Perry and Racik, their positions were not so clear cut so to go with Perry, or Penca or Smith it wasn't a clear call so they go with youth. Same with Racik at 13. Can you name me another 13 that is clearly the best in the comp?
I had the same thought with Powell over Rolando however they may have seen them as pretty even players so therefore chose the youth.

To be honest i think the best 9 in Canberra in Edan Campbell-O'Brien from Uni-Norths and he is relatively young. Sione over Nadruku was clear cut, watch Saturdays grand final, unless Neori has a stinker I think you will find it very hard to support that argument, and your own Penders is up there too, and in a position where in all honesty he isn't going to see a lot of game time behind Brumbies players, so why wouldn't you develop a young bloke? Obviously i am biased but I would not be swapping Penca for Perry anytime soon. There is not a lot of talent around at 13, true, same with hooker, but at hooker they looked elsewhere and got Lam and Wade. But obviously didn't do the same for 13, so the thought was oh well rather than give a first grader a crack we'll put a second grade Tuggers player in there.