Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?

[Inside Shoulder]

Kind of like Hodgson who he made captain? Obviously weren't token gestures.

Based on what we have seen, other than McMahon having a blinder and Higgers getting injured, getting selected in the run on for that if there was another option in your position was an indication you weren't needed.

they should have flown them home after the baa baa's

 

[It is what it is]

There are people on this board that openly admit to wanting "running rugby" regardless of result over having Jakeball win the world cup.

Another bullshit statement, where do you get this stuff from?
When have these board members openly admitted to wanting "running rugby" regardless of result over having Jakeball win the world cup?
Who admitted this?

 

[Brendan Hume]

they should have flown them home after the baa baa's

Having people on tour and not playing is still an important part of player development, is important for injury cover and provides bodies for training. It is disappointing that more players haven't had more time, but the structure of the tour probably is as much at fault as anything without mid-week games.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Having people on tour and not playing is still an important part of player development, is important for injury cover and provides bodies for training. It is disappointing that more players haven't had more time, but the structure of the tour probably is as much at fault as anything without mid-week games.

I was being sarcastic.
And whatever posters think I am sure than not one of the players would want to come home

 

[fatprop]

Another bullshit statement, where do you get this stuff from?
When have these board members openly admitted to wanting "running rugby" regardless of result over having Jakeball win the world cup?
Who admitted this?

I have, I don't want to see Jakeball, or the stuff Deans resorted to, as the way the Wallabies play.

I want to see us play with a positive attitude, move the ball and have a go.

 

[wamberal]

I have, I don't want to see Jakeball, or the stuff Deans resorted to, as the way the Wallabies play.

I want to see us play with a positive attitude, move the ball and have a go.

Absolutely. We cannot win playing Jakeball.

Moving the ball around, in hand, is our only realistic chance of (a) winning and (b) saving the game in Australia by bringing the crowds and TV audiences back to our game.

As Maggie T so famously said: TINA!!! There is no alternative!!!!

 

[Brumbieman]

To answer the OP, this is my take.


No.


It will work in Super rugby, but unless you have excellent tactical kickers, and a strong set piece, you're playing Eddie-ball.

I watched the Wallabies v the Frogs from 2005 a few days ago, and it was not a whole lot different to the game we just lost.

Rapid phase play designed to try and find cracks in the opposition defence, high number of phases and quick ball out the base of the ruck. No real tactical kicking, scrums and lineouts just rushed through quickly to get back to playing ltos of fucking phases without going anywhere but sideways, and relying on individual acts of brilliance to make the break.

The weekends game was the perfect example of the problem with the whole plan: test rugby is tougher than Super rugby. The Irish knew their attack wasn't as good as ours and so played to their strengths. They kicked extremely well, and pinned us in our own half. 2 of our tries were begun behind our own 10m line.

We were pinned in our half, and instead of kicking our way out (which immediately flips the pressure switch onto the opposition), we tried to run. We out-scored the opposition in tries and still lost, because they out kicked us.

They didn't even win the set piece ffs, the only thing they did better than us was kick, and we lost. All but 5 points came directly from astute and accurate kicking.

Now, imagine what the result would have been if they had set piece dominance? They could still be as impotent as the Italians in attack, but it wouldn't matter.

There will be games we win and slaughter the opposition, and there will be times that we win a close game off the back of our try scoring, but as sure as night follows day, until we are able to outkick (tactically), and use kicking as an offensive weapon, we will never win a trophy.

Tri-nations, WC, Bledisloe etc etc, will not retun to our shores until we are at least on par.

Edit: I'm not saing that we have to play Jakeball. The fact is, that NZ are the best, and most frequent, kickers of the ball. They have the best defence, arguably the best set piece. Would anyone seriously accuse them of playing Jakeball? They kick more than the Brumbies have been the past two seasons, yet they are 'amazing runners of the ball'.

The difference lies in the quality of kicking.

 

[Gnostic]

I have, I don't want to see Jakeball, or the stuff Deans resorted to, as the way the Wallabies play.

I want to see us play with a positive attitude, move the ball and have a go.

And if they lose doing it so be it, as long as they had a red hot go. The only provision I would make is I would like to see individual and collective skill improvements along the way, such as in kicking from hand. The negative risk averse stuff was killing me more than any loss with aplomb.

 

[matt james]

Over the last month I have become increasingly despondent about the Wallabies chances at the next world cup. My main worry isn't an inability to play to Cheika's game plan, its that Cheika will go ahead in trying to balance the Tahs and the Wallabies.
Surely he will have since realised the need to focus specifically on one job. Should Cheika coach the Tahs next year he will no get to view players outside of NSW to the degree needed; surely rival coaches wouldn't give him access to training.
I would much rather a full time White than a part time Cheika.

On the matter of the game plan, the main issue is surely the second rowers we have. We have the backline players necessary, the front row is showing depth and improving, the backrow is only a weakness currently as a result of injuries (add Palu, Pocock, Higgers, Fardy and it has quality). I don't think we have time to look past Simmons, Horwill and Carter which means they will need to step up massively; I don't rate Skelton's chances of dominating at the world cup.

 

[wamberal]

The coach is not the problem. The simple, awful, fact is that we just do not have the strength in depth to win anything these days.

We will never win another World Cup, unless, and until, the rugby codes are reunited.

 

[qwerty51]

The coach is not the problem. The simple, awful, fact is that we just do not have the strength in depth to win anything these days.

We will never win another World Cup, unless, and until, the rugby codes are reunited.

I think new expectations need to be met, the Wallabies are no longer a top 2 force in World Rugby. The code is just not popular enough here to support it. We're around 3rd-5th now - 20 years on from professionalism.

 

[couldabeen]

I am not so despondent. The Leicester Tigers' motto is "Death or Glory". Tongue in cheek kind of. I certainly don't want anyone to die playing Rugby. But, my point would be - Cheika gets it, the Waratahs got it and played accordingly, and the Wallabies get it and are working at it. It makes for awesome Rugby, (just ask the Kiwis - that is the the point of the Haka right? "it is life, it is death")
I understood it when I played and the kids I have coached understood it. Few team sports approach the ability of Rugby to allow willing contenders of varied height and weight to rip in!
I took a team up to the Bowral sevens tournament - no lack of willingness and participation.
We may not compete with the influence of hovering soccer Moms, but man do we have a game! And Cheika knows how it should be played, In hy humble opinion

 

[Pfitzy]

The coach is not the problem. The simple, awful, fact is that we just do not have the strength in depth to win anything these days.

We will never win another World Cup, unless, and until, the rugby codes are reunited.

My initial reaction to this post was "Bullshit!"

But, when you look at the teams we've had that DID win World Cups, they featured some all-time legends who all just turned up.

So on that basis, we COULD win a RWC, but yeah it does rely on those players being there with a little depth or no injuries.

I think the skill thing is something we have lost across rugby in this country, and the development system is to blame. Yes, I'm looking at the rugby nurseries.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

I agree Pfitzy - to have rugby development largely limited to six schools in Sydney and nine in Brisbane is absurd. Somehow we went from drawing players from all walks of life in the 1990s to today's situation. It's a crying shame, especially the demise of club rugby for kids at high school age

 

[boyo]

 

[barbarian]

I agree Pfitzy - to have rugby development largely limited to six schools in Sydney and nine in Brisbane is absurd. Somehow we went from drawing players from all walks of life in the 1990s to today's situation. It's a crying shame, especially the demise of club rugby for kids at high school age

As much as that sounds nice, it just isn't true. This year's Australian Schoolboys team that played NZ featured players from Hunter Sports High, Epping Boys High, Sarah Redfern High School, Canberra College, Oakhill College, St Kevins College and St Francis Xavier College.

All of those schools featured in the starting XV. I don't think the game is getting better at reaching out into high schools and non-traditional areas, but I do think people have rose-tinted specs as to how diverse it used to be. The big private schools have always dominated. I don't think that domination is any more pronounced now than it has been.

But now I'm way off topic.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

The difference lies in the quality of kicking.

Never a truer word was spoken.

Many people forget that Mark Ella had a fantastic kicking game along with all the other skills he possessed. He could also, prop, stop and knock over a field goal regularly at all levels of the game.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

And of the 1999 Wallabies XV that took the field in the final against France, only Roff, Burke, and Wilson attended Brisbane or Sydney GPS schools, with quite a number of state school educated players in that side.
Not disagreeing that the big private schools have always been rugby strongholds and nurseries, but that side contained many once-in-a-generation players, many of whom came from outside that traditional sphere. Anyway, sorry for diverting further off topic, but I don't think Pfitzy's (or my) comment was without factual basis.

 

[Ruggo]

Rugby has always been a niche sport. Some view it from within the niche and some view it from outside the niche. Those to views have never really been given a chance to meet.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And of the 1999 Wallabies XV that took the field in the final against France, only Roff, Burke, and Wilson attended Brisbane or Sydney GPS schools

Matt Cockbain?
Jason Little - not sure if he got on the field
Chris Whittaker - ditto
Nathan Grey - ditto