Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?

[Train Without a Station]

Guess all the higher ranked teams than Australia must be selecting 10s on the wrong criteria then, considered those types of things. Don't they know what's needed to win super rugby?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't mean to say there cannot be innovation.

But when everybody is doing their thing more successfully than you, perhaps they are closer to the right track.

 

[Gagger]

Call me insane here. But I always thought it was best practice to base your game plan around your best players (within reason. Balance, temperament, etc all have to be considered), because if you choose your players based on a pre-conceived game plan decided before you know who you have, potentially you aren't able to play to the best of your talent pool's ability.

Again that's just my hair brained, crazy notion.

You fill gaps to suit a plan that suits the majority of the players at your disposal.

Best players on what parameters (other than your say so)?

Depending how you want to play, different skills have different value.

You have to first know where you want to go then you choose who to use to get you there.

What happens in your version of the world every time you have an injury to key players - you rip up the whole game plan and start again from the 'special vibe of the unique group'? Clearly not.

 

[Gagger]

Guess all the higher ranked teams than Australia must be selecting 10s on the wrong criteria then, considered those types of things. Don't they know what's needed to win super rugby?

What, like those crazy silky skilled 5/8s the Saffas have had when they've won world cups, super titles and consistently been rated above us? Did they all have the same skills as Quade?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'm not specifically saying any players here.

There's pretty standard aspects which you judge players in each position on though. So that would be a good starting point.

The best team isn't the best 15 players of the best player in each position. You need to have balance and complimentary skills of course.

But surely picking the best players in the fairly standardly recognised roles would be a starting point. Which you would then adjust to suit.

Like RIGHT now. Slipper, Moore, Kepu, Carter, Simmons, Fardy, Phipps, Kurindrani and Folau would be a fairly certain starting point. I'd throw Hooper in. Others wouldn't.

Surely with players like Kuridrani and Folau out wide a player who actually has the vision and pass to put them in holes would be beneficial. You'll have more luck running at doors than walls.

 

[Train Without a Station]

What, like those crazy silky skilled 5/8s the Saffas have had when they've won world cups, super titles and consistently been rated above us? Did they all have the same skills as Quade?

No. They have a strong kicking game. England would be the same. Not just distance, but tactical placement.

The best NZ flyhalves have vision and passing games.

Foley doesn't really have either to test standard.

 

[Train Without a Station]

As for this notion that QC (Quade Cooper) is a RWC winning 5/8 - he's already played in one, right? And we remember how it worked out?

You're right. Lynagh took Aus to a 3rd place finish in 87. Dwyer was a moron, should have fucked him off for the next one when he took over.

 

[Biffo]

Interesting that's it's most of the Waratahs supporters saying out provincial bias aside, yet accept that their coach is the wallabies coach and will favour Waratahs players due to familiarity and having more time with them.

Sounds an awful lot like what everybody said would be the issue with him filling both roles and being blinded by familiarity.

i am not at all happy that Michael Cheika's coaching skills are providing succour for the Tahs' Australian enemies in the Soup.
i don't know a single Tah fan who is.

as a total Wallaby supporter, i am delighted that the best possible bloke is running the big show.

i don't, for a nano second, believe that Michael Cheika will, for the Wallabies, do other than scour the globe for the best available talent, select it, test it and persevere with it when the player proves worthy.
i am sure that all the Wallaby squad now know what is required of them to stay in the squad.
it's up to them, isn't it?

Michael Cheika put it so well this week: "I am not a sociologist (gotta laugh tat he got the wrong profession there), I am a rugby cosch".

 

[Biffo]

of all RWC winning 5/8s, the only one who even occasionally applied the outrageous skills of Cooper was Larkham.

the rest were all steadies.

 

[Train Without a Station]

So he's going to scour the globe for the best players? Hasn't even scoured the touring squad for the best 10! Got 3 there and 1 of them has played something like 230 of 240 test minutes so far.

 

[Biffo]

So he's going to scour the globe for the best players? Hasn't even scoured the touring squad for the best 10! Got 3 there and 1 of them has played something like 230 of 240 test minutes so far.

i surrender

 

[qwerty51]

I predict halfway into the 2015 Super season Cheika will step down as Tahs coach.

 

[Biffo]

spoil sport.
you should have let the deludees carry on for a while longer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So he's going to scour the globe for the best players? Hasn't even scoured the touring squad for the best 10! Got 3 there and 1 of them has played something like 230 of 240 test minutes so far.

You should start your own thread.
If Cheika had given QC (Quade Cooper) a starting role in, say, the Baa Baas youd paint it as a ploy to see him fail given his lack of game time.
No matter what he does you will be able to see it as pro Tahs anti everyone else.
Why don't you inform yourself, YouTube will help, as to the guy's philosophies, open your mind to the possibility that he wants (which will always involve the exercise of some judgment on his part, but not yours) what is best for Australia and then resume posting.

 

[fatprop]

Same song book from Cheika

Wallabies coach Michael Cheika has urged his players to keep the faith in their game plan transition, insisting he won't deviate from his vision for the team despite back-to-back losses.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...-new-plan-despite-losses-20141124-11sgv7.html

 

[vidiot]

Cheika wants to pick the best (insert position here) to play the game he wants it to be played.

If that doesn't happen he is sabotaging himself and the wallabies, of course he's going to do it.

It's a greater change for someone like Cooper or Genia compared to say Slipper. The latter appears to have evolved pretty much to fit right in.

Cooper can theoretically play the way Cheika wants. He is large enough, fast enough, skillful enough, and (I think) trying to be physical enough.

Whether it works out comes down to decision-making, effort and opportunity, and demonstrating it on the park.

I reckon it's great for both Genia and Cooper to be getting Cheikerized, it will do both of their games a lot of good.

 

[fatprop]

Cooper suits the game plan, provided he is prepared to play flatter continually as a flat ball distributor or a second play option behind the forward pods.

Whereas under Link ball, he would sit in the pocket, let the pigs truck it up and wait til he saw an opportunity, then go

The difference to me is the effort of being a threat off the ball more of the time, running those lines and having runners ready off him with or with out the ball

 

[Pfitzy]

The FIFO comment is exactly as it states - fit the game plan, or FO, regardless of province, past or perceived genius.

Oh I thought you were saying Josh Mann-Rea was going to get more time - he's got experience in the mining sector

Cooper suits the game plan, provided he is prepared to play flatter continually as a flat ball distributor or a second play option behind the forward pods.

Whereas under Link ball, he would sit in the pocket, let the pigs truck it up and wait til he saw an opportunity, then go

This isn't significantly different from the way in which Beale sat at 12, waited for the opportunity, and then struck. All that time leading up to his injection, Foley was calling the shots and playing flat to the line at 10.

As for Quade being obviously superior - I think I said earlier that it doesn't matter a fucking thing if your forwards aren't doing enough at the contest. Quade had a really good EOYT 2013 and some people seem to translate that into "Quade won three games single-handedly". Bloody backs forget who puts bread on the table!

Gagger said it: game plan. Pretty sure Cheika's got one, and its better thought out than just "chuck my fave player into this position and he'll do it all!"

There is another Super season where Cheika and his team get to look at candidates and decide how they're going to tweak things. That might even involve Quade at 12 where he can put his skills to full use, playing the "Beale" role of funny guy to Foley's straight man.

It might be that the Super coaches get together and agree on some positional changes e.g. Lilo and To'omua swapping in order to start streamlining the selection process at the other end.

The good thing for everyone else is that the journey the Tahs have been on can be condensed down into two elements:

Forwards with aggression and physicality
Backs with skills and running

Any player who has seen that happen in NSW can make that their foundation for getting themselves noticed.

 

[fatprop]

This isn't significantly different from the way in which Beale sat at 12, waited for the opportunity, and then struck. All that time leading up to his injection, Foley was calling the shots and playing flat to the line at 10.

One of the reasons I thought Cooper could be given some time at 12

 

[Train Without a Station]

Surely then a To'omua at 10 and Cooper at 12 combo would be better.

Better defenders and better in contact than Foley and Beale, better passing game, better kicking game if required (because any game plan that requires just running as a pre-planned tactic in all situations is flawed) and all around better management and structure than just popping up wherever suits.