Brumbies v Crusaders Super Rugby Round 9

[galumay]

Nah, I just hate conference systems.

Totally agree, its a crazy system, made even more insane this year with creating 2 African conferences so we can fit in the Sunwolves & Jaguares.

As you say, it would be preferable to have the 6 best teams make the finals, but its not really about rugby anymore, its marketing, advertising, TV rights and big business.

Maybe the answer is to think outside the box, maybe it needs something like a 10 team Super comp, with a second level comp of the remaining 8 teams with a relegation and promotion system?

 

[Pfitzy]

fine then fuyck ya! we'll build our own fuckin forum! takes all of 30 seconds to belt up a proboards.com freebie, we'll make Byron Kelleher's dog the fuckin moderator

Trying to start a kiwi rugby forum post-McCaw?

You'd have to spend the first three months writing posts on "we're the shut, bro! Aussies are shut bro!" posts just to reach critical mass.

 

[barbarian]

I don't buy this 'wow how good are the Kiwi teams' stuff in regards to this game.

Yes they are good, and that has been proven a bunch of times this year. But this is not what happened here.

The Brumbies fucking sucked. They. Were. Dire.

And I don't want that to get lost as we Aussies thrashwank over the counter-attacking prowess of the Crusaders. They were good, sure, but the Brumbies handed them the game on a silver platter.

They remind me of a few previous Tahs sides- plenty of big names but they just can't get it together. Heads should fucking roll after that, it was embarrasing.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

The people who complain about the conference system really must have a narrow sporting outlook. It's a system used around the world in any competition where everyone either doesn't play every other team or there is an uneven spread of games.

It generally has nothing to do with TV audiences as most are within one country.

It's just an accepted part of the ranking system that winning your division is a superior result than a team that achieves a better record but doesn't win their division.

People complaining about it in Super Rugby are about the only time I've ever seen people whinge about it.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Trying to start a kiwi rugby forum post-McCaw?

piece of piss!

http://blackandblackrugby.boards.net/

Moderator:

Byron Kelleher's Dog.

 

[galumay]

People complaining about it in Super Rugby are about the only time I've ever seen people whinge about it.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

You really need to get out more then!

If you dont understand how it is totally driven by TV and marketing then I am not surprised you cant see the issues with it.

 

[Braveheart81]

You really need to get out more then!

If you dont understand how it is totally driven by TV and marketing then I am not surprised you cant see the issues with it.

Why do they use that same system in every US sport then?

There's no conceivable TV viewer advantage it's just accepted that winning a division is a greater achievement than earning a wildcard spot.

Anyway, this must be the 10th time this argument has been done on the forum.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[cyclopath]

piece of piss!

http://blackandblackrugby.boards.net/

Moderator:

Byron Kelleher's Dog.

I tried logging in but got grot-jacked to a dimly-lit concrete bunker with a blindfolded alpaca, a tin of sun-dried hallucinogenic breadfruit and a crazed, stunted man with an unfeasibly large head playing "Sweet Home, Onehunga" on the spoons.
When will my log-in password be confirmed?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

When will my log-in password be confirmed?

Probably when Byron's dog finds his log-in password confirmation spoons.

 

[Tomikin]

Tom Staniforth deserves a start, I think over Arnold who I think is big and a basher, but the kid is playing like a demon and we deserve to see what he can do from the start.. Wasn't a great game from us, lots of dropped ball and too much behind the game line. Plus when the best passage of play is your THP taking an intercept, kicking down field for the backs and his the first one there to make a tackle, that lead to a try, your in trouble.

 

[cyclopath]

Probably when Byron's dog finds his log-in password confirmation spoons.

Sweeeee-eeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

 

[Gnostic]

It can be said without doubt that the Brumbies outperformed massively in round . Their true level of performance has been seen each week from then. Wins against equally bad or worse sides like the Tahs, and thrashings at the hands of good sides playing to Super rugby standard.

The amount of dropped ball from the Australian sides and the woeful defence causes one to lose hair in clumps and receive cautions from the wife regarding language.

The Brumbies idea of attack in this game was so pedestrian it was laughable. Lets slowly shuffle it through the hands from one side to the other and get Kurindrani to bash it up, then Fardy, then Moore. Shuffle shuffle. Larkham cannot claim that the players didn't follow instructions in this game it has largely been the same all season, with them lucky to get some very weak teams giving them false confidence about their form.

For the ARU/Australian Rugby's sake we'd better hope that the great Chieka can pull the rabble making up the Australian sides together into a far more cohesive whole or else I doubt the Wallabies will be able to be competitive against the English let alone the ABs or other RC sides.

 

[Gnostic]

Tom Staniforth deserves a start, I think over Arnold who I think is big and a basher, but the kid is playing like a demon and we deserve to see what he can do from the start.. Wasn't a great game from us, lots of dropped ball and too much behind the game line. Plus when the best passage of play is your THP taking an intercept, kicking down field for the backs and his the first one there to make a tackle, that lead to a try, your in trouble.

I dump Carter honestly, two dropped balls in two carries in the last 20 minutes typifies his lack of any real impact. The total dominance of the Crusaders maul and counter maul (through weak body height and poor technique) really proved for me why he is a long way behind in Wallaby lock stakes. I can see why Chieka selects Skelton over him, even though it compromises the lineout,, even with Skelton dropping the ball as often as Carter he at least commits defenders and tends to stop mauls.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The two main issues as I see them are :-

1. The backline attack is constructed much too far behind the gain line, and mostly the passes are a good ten metres before the defense. There is not enough drawing the defense and then getting the pass on to the next player. And sadly, Lealiifano and To'omua are the main culprits. The result tonight was that very few line breaks were made and mostly play finished further back down the field than from where it started.

The Crusaders' straight line defense just killed us.

This is out of character, is a coaching/game plan issue, and must be corrected before next week's game against the Landers. First step might be to swap Christian and Matty around again. Matty is more direct at 10, and Christian is more creative at 12.

2. The sliding defense just doesn't work against a side like the Crusaders (and others) who are willing and able to get the ball wide quickly and then skirt the defense on the outside. Or bring an inside runner back in the midfield when the defensive line is struggling to quickly get to the sidelines. The Crusaders did us all night long by outflanking the compressed defense. Again, this is a coaching issue and must be fixed.

On top of that, there are a few players not in form or not up to the required standard. Just to single out a couple, Sam Carter had a game Rob Simmons would be proud of, and it just isn't good enough. Staniforth should get his starting spot for a while to sort Sam out.

Robbie Coleman is all heart (how many times have I said that?) but he is no match for any of the opposition he comes up against. There is a desperate need for someone like Ah Wong, Dargaville or Taliauli to replace Robbie imo.

And unfortunately, Jarrad Butler is no David Pocock. Back to 8 or the bench next week.

And then I wonder how much the current crap going on down here is having an affect on the team. Certainly can't be doing any good with their minds.

 

[Slim 293]

There are definitely a few positional changes that need to be made, but I don't think that's really going to change much..........

I thought there were actually quite a number of good individual moments (Fardy, Tomane, even Kuridrani had a number of powerful runs), particularly off first phase/turnover ball, but then they couldn't string together the basics as a team to follow up on that.........

At times it felt like a textbook example of what not to do, followed by the Crusaders showing how to do it.

I still think the Brumbies can bounce back, top the Australian conference but at most they'll only go as far as a semi without some major adjustments to the way they play.

 

[Gnostic]

The two main issues as I see them are :-



1. The backline attack is constructed much too far behind the gain line, and mostly the passes are a good ten metres before the defense. There is not enough drawing the defense and then getting the pass on to the next player. And sadly, Lealiifano and To'omua are the main culprits. The result tonight was that very few line breaks were made and mostly play finished further back down the field than from where it started.



The Crusaders' straight line defense just killed us.



This is out of character, is a coaching/game plan issue, and must be corrected before next week's game against the Landers. First step might be to swap Christian and Matty around again. Matty is more direct at 10, and Christian is more creative at 12.



2. The sliding defense just doesn't work against a side like the Crusaders (and others) who are willing and able to get the ball wide quickly and then skirt the defense on the outside. Or bring an inside runner back in the midfield when the defensive line is struggling to quickly get to the sidelines. The Crusaders did us all night long by outflanking the compressed defense. Again, this is a coaching issue and must be fixed.



On top of that, there are a few players not in form or not up to the required standard. Just to single out a couple, Sam Carter had a game Rob Simmons would be proud of, and it just isn't good enough. Staniforth should get his starting spot for a while to sort Sam out.



Robbie Coleman is all heart (how many times have I said that?) but he is no match for any of the opposition he comes up against. There is a desperate need for someone like Ah Wong, Dargaville or Taliauli to replace Robbie imo.



And unfortunately, Jarrad Butler is no David Pocock. Back to 8 or the bench next week.



And then I wonder how much the current crap going on down here is having an affect on the team. Certainly can't be doing any good with their minds.

I do agree, but it isn't just this game. Apart from round 1 this has been a trend for the Brumbies since then. The body height in the second half attempted attack mauls really put it on display IMO. The Brumbies pack were all upright while the four/five Crusaders took a low contact height and drove through the Brumbies who struggled to get their own ball back. A huge contrast with the Crusaders maul which the Brumbies infringed against constantly and blatantly (Fardy very lucky they scored or he would have gone to the bin for diving over the top of the maul to reach the ball carrier). This was supposed to be a Brumbies strength and I suppose against the other Australian sides (excepting the Reds) it is.

As for the off field dramas, people hoping for an outcome, any outcome, will be disappointed I think. Corporate matters rarely achieve any transparent outcome, even when malfeasance of some kind is readily apparent to most people, because proof beyond reasonable doubt is almost never achievable and civil proceedings almost always result in non-disclosable settlements.

 

[Marcelo]

Well, this is the reality of Aussie rugby. All the money is in AFL and NRL. So this is what the Aussie rugby can do without money.

 

[mst]

To add to your comments Brumby Runner and Slim, I think we got to see in game one that is Cubelli is fantastic when he has options and can really manufacture a great running game. Since that first week where we looked really attacking the Brumbies have reverted back to the old habits and he is left with box kicks and shovelling the ball off. A total waste.

Toua - experiment over. Poor options, poor kicking, poor in the air, and poor in defence. The radical option is Christian to full back with To'omua at 10.

That back-line is struggling to get a shot off, and its the same as all last season. Sad to say maybe its time for someone to sit down as unless the usual rearranging of the deckchairs works, we lose nothing by putting in the likes of Jackson-Hope or Joost, and injecting Dargaville. Smith, Taliauli or Ah-Wong. You could even take a chance and put Tomane at 12 (To'omua as 10, Christian at 15) and put Dargaville, Taliauli, Smith, Ah-Wong or even Toua on the wings. Henry can slot in when he gets back.

Its either Butler or Fardy not both as they bring the same really. IMHO I think we are best served by Fardy out of the two when Pocock is out and would get better value by using Wells at 7. When its Pocock on, I believe we need a more attacking option at 8 to offset the Fardy / Pocock combination. What about giving Ben Hyne a run in either of these scenarios?

The Tominator needs to start!

We have better wing options than Robbie and should be using them. Robbie is a great utility player and covers well, but is not the right option.

One thing that I am starting to worry about is that Bernie cant separate himself from player loyalties and relationships. There are some players playing that are out of form or not at the right standard and getting selected week in week out.

Things need to change and we all know that names and reputations don't mean a team will click and fire, so maybe its time that hard decisions are made on who should be on the field.

I also think the coaching team need to reflect on the current game plan. Is the defence to structured? Are we to focused and reliant on set piece? Why can we run the ball or offload? Why do we rarely see players in motion running good lines at the defence, and working as a group instead on individuals going one up unsupported?

My biggest question is the speed the Brumbies play at. Its slow, almost like its ingrained in them to pace themselves. Its like they are to busy trying to control the game to actually play it. IMHO its why the Kiwis are blowing them off the park; they are playing the game quicker than the Brumbies can get organised to try put the control measures in place and control the risks.

And the Kicking. FFS!!! I have heard many times that in attack you wish for two thing; time and space. Nothing give an good attack more time and space than kicking out of defence!

Its a simple concept to grasp Brumbies. A kick out of defence that stays in-field is the equivalent of a Kiwi backs wet dream coming true! Time and space, uncontested ball and a run up to boot!!!!!!!

 

[Brumby Jack]

Nemani Nadolo as been cited out of this game for a lifting tackle

 

[Dan54]

Just read that too BJ, didn't notice it, but that means nothing.
Anyway onto game, and more, some of comments about Aus/NZ rugby. I don't think Aus teams are generally looking very good this year but that doesn't suddenly make it all in a dire situation. As Barbabarian says to take this game as an indication of the gulf between the nations is not really the brightest way of doing it. One of the biggest weaknesses I see in Aus teams is too many of the players only seem to work hard with the ball, and go a little missing without. When a team gets a turnover see the difference in how quick the players rush to get in support etc, I can't really imagine the Wallabies having that problem because Cheika is only going to pick the players that really work hard I imagine, and from there it fairly simple to coach them into how to get into support roles. Probably the other thing I think he needs to work on is to get players to play flatter than they do, look at where NZ 9s tend to pass ball (and A Smith more than any), it almost flat across the field and that gets everyone running forward on to the ball.