Brumbies v Crusaders Rd 18 Sat 13 June

[Chronicle]

"But in the end it's White's howlers that has cost them...."
Slim


I don’t know why but I expect better from Brumbies supporters, something to support the comment would at least to enable some comparison against White's performances since his return from injury where he has been the best performed half in the Australian conference would have been nice.

Starting with his comeback game against the Stormers in Capetown where his speed and accuracy of distribution contributed to tries by Tevita Kurandrani and Ita Taveadespite the Stormers being all over the ball at the breakdown, allowed by our friendly referee.

Followed by his MOM performance against the Lions in Johannesburg where again his speed at the breakdown and kicking was instrumental in the win.

Followed by his three try assists in the games against the Bulls, the cut out balls to Jordan Smiler and Henry Speight (for his second) demonstrations of White’s pass selection at its best .

His line kicking acknowledged as the best in Super rugby enabling the rolling maul to be positioned to deliver a four try bonus against the Force and dealing with Hodgson and the Force forwards doing their jobs and slowing the Brumby ball at the breakdown to still provide quality service to his outside backs.

All whilst still being an integral part of the best defensive unit in Super rugby continuing to fill in at all points in the line against sometimes much larger opponents and maintaining a high level of effectiveness, greater than any other half in Super rugby.

Is White flawless, no he isn’t but unless there are specific significant incidents I have missed IMO his form over the last month and indeed over the last couple of years has him at or near the top in Super Rugby.

I am including a table of this year’s stats in super rugby comparing White against Phipps and Smith. One rated a certainty for Australia at the RWC and the other acknowledged as the best in the world at the moment. White is continually lambasted for not running the ball and kicking too much, the table makes for interesting comparison when you consider the games and minutes played and White is again shown to be a leading try assist player after topping Super Rugby last year in this area, something that brings great accolades to others in other teams.

Nick Phipps Nic White Aaron Smith
Games/mins 16/1192 13/996 14/953
Tries 2 2 6
Carries 78 68 44
Metres 262 188 139
Clean Breaks 10 3 8
Defenders beaten 10 8 6
Offloads 15 12 4
Try Assits 4 12 7
Kicks in Open Play 4 77 118
Tackles 80 85 57
Missed tackles 23/77.7% 15/85% 21/73.1%
Turnovers 28 26 25

 

[Pedrolicus]

Good call chronicle. It seems like hating nic white is the height of fashion.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

[Sully]

And it's easy.

 

[barbarian]

White's problem is his tendency to commit visible errors at crucial times, which tend to linger in the memory far longer than good solid play.

No-one doubts White's class, it's the so-called 'howlers' that you just don't see Phipps making that see him fall down the pecking order.

White is a lot more central to the general direction of the Brumbies than Phipps is to the Tahs, which contributes to this disparity- Phipps has a simple brief and executes it well, while White's is more complex and can lead to trouble on occasion if everything isn't done right.
.

 

[Brumbieman]

Maybe because one of the biggest problems for defenders with Nadolo is the same as SBW, he offloads very well, especially when the Saders have used him running in the centres. He usually tackles low so maybe some thought as to why the change before the slagging off a usually good reliable player. It is not as if Coleman's defence usually resembles Beale is it.

As for Mogg, is he just playing as he is told and kicking most ball away? His running game has never recovered the zip and penetration he showed early last year and the year before, as it stands he is barely super level in his play.

First priority should be to get the man down, as if you don't take Nadolo low he scores two tries in the corner after swatting the midget away.

If Coleman had gone in low and fast, he'd have had him around the ankles both times, dropped him quickly and then we had more number in support to pile in and either slow the ball down or just turn it over.

Instead, we concede two tries.

 

[Slim 293]

Chronicle, I have repeatedly come to the defence of White as he has been crucial to some of the Brumbies' best performances this season and that is reflected in those stats you posted..........

White was easily the in form Aussie half in the early rounds, but a combination of injury and some poor performances has seen him slip..............

As Barbarian correctly points out, he has a tendency to make some absolute howlers, as he did in the Crusaders game at times when the Brumbies looked to gain some ascendency.............

Still, been playing better than Genia............

 

[Shiggins]

Question.

Piper played an advantage for offside or something. It was a penalty to the crusaders. Then the brumbies knocked on the ball after the crusaders kicked it. He continued to play advantage for the knock on. Then hoes back to the penalty advantage. How the hell can he play a new advantage and then go back to an old one?

Anyone?

 

[Slim 293]

The Brumbies knock on wouldn't affect the penalty advantage the Crusaders had.........

It's play on until he comes back to the original penalty advantage.

 

[Viking]

How much better are day games in Canberra!!!!

Also, Mogg was absolutely horrible this game. Should have moved Coleman to fullback when To'omua came on.

 

[Chronicle]

"poor performances has seen him slip......

As Barbarian correctly points out, he has a tendency to make some absolute howlers, as he did in the Crusaders game at times when the Brumbies looked to gain some ascendency....."

I do not want to have to defend anyone but just want to see some evidence posted to support the comments so that reasonable and justifiable conversation can take place.
I believe White has been in great form and have described the moments that I believe support that along with seasons stats which also support my view.

I am sick of seeing some players castigated for incidents and extrapolated into generalizations of their ability which are not supported by reality.

I see other halves throw terrible passes which are not commented on, tackles missed, wrong options taken with little recrimination.

White has started in 7 tests and lost 2. That is a fact and stacks up very well against his contemporaries. He took an option in Brisbane but did not miss the tackle that led to the try and on the contrary he pulled of a try saver on the opposite side of the field after the NZ had possession which White had won back earlier by securing a lose ball.

I don't believe his overall performance has slipped and I don't see evidence of susceptibility to howlers that is not evident in any of the other key playmakers.

 

[fatprop]

I think White is a great 9, but he can get rattled and won't forget and get on with it at times

 

[PaarlBok]

Right. How many teams do you have in the finals?

Do you understand the conference system? Take the Stormers example, they won all the matches against the Aussie teams (including beating the Tahs at home with a five pointer). Just image what their tally would have been if they played in the Aussie conference?

 

[Gnostic]

First priority should be to get the man down, as if you don't take Nadolo low he scores two tries in the corner after swatting the midget away.

If Coleman had gone in low and fast, he'd have had him around the ankles both times, dropped him quickly and then we had more number in support to pile in and either slow the ball down or just turn it over.

Instead, we concede two tries.

What was Coleman doing defending the wing when he was positioned and defending most of the game at 12? Do you think he was covering? Where were the wingers?

I do not like the bagging out of a player who is a reliable defender on the basis of this one game and two instances. A statistical analysis of the 2 failures:defensive success ratio doesn't support the OTT statement without looking deeper and asking the question. As I said it is not as if Coleman has the defensive history of Beale who has proved time and again to be little more than a speed bump.

 

[Gnostic]

White's problem is his tendency to commit visible errors at crucial times, which tend to linger in the memory far longer than good solid play.

No-one doubts White's class, it's the so-called 'howlers' that you just don't see Phipps making that see him fall down the pecking order.

White is a lot more central to the general direction of the Brumbies than Phipps is to the Tahs, which contributes to this disparity- Phipps has a simple brief and executes it well, while White's is more complex and can lead to trouble on occasion if everything isn't done right.
.

Also because the Tahs tend to be advancing the errors Phipps makes, coupled with the ball skills of Foley and the forwards tends to cover a lot up. Some of Whites are compounded by those outside him.

 

[Merrow]

Do you understand the conference system? Take the Stormers example, they won all the matches against the Aussie teams (including beating the Tahs at home with a five pointer). Just image what their tally would have been if they played in the Aussie conference?

Hardly necessary to be so patronizing. The Stormers beat the Brumbies by one point and with an incredibly dodgy referee. You spoke about Australia being a weak conference, I'm not sure how anything you said justifies your earlier point. The Bulls won how many games on their tour? The Stormers are one team in the SA conference. You might well ask yourself the same question you asked me.

 

[Brumby Runner]

What was Coleman doing defending the wing when he was positioned and defending most of the game at 12? Do you think he was covering? Where were the wingers?

I do not like the bagging out of a player who is a reliable defender on the basis of this one game and two instances. A statistical analysis of the 2 failures:defensive success ratio doesn't support the OTT statement without looking deeper and asking the question. As I said it is not as if Coleman has the defensive history of Beale who has proved time and again to be little more than a speed bump.

Opposite to the Nic White situation where a lot of posters here see only his errors and none of the positive aspects he brings to a game, other posters see only the supposed good things Robbie does and not the poor. His defense certainly is not as poor as Beale's but whenever he has played fullback or wing in the NRC last year or earlier this Super season, he has had problems competing with the bigger, heavier opposition players running at him.

As I said elsewhere, if anyone thought it was a good idea to have him defending Nadolo, then I have to question their knowledge and understanding of the game. And Nadolo is not the only massive unit playing wing. Look at Naiyarovoro, Savea, Naholo etc. IMO the game has passed by the little player playing in the outside backs. Robbie is built like a No 9 and that should be the only spot he is considered for. Maybe next year?

 

[Gnostic]

Opposite to the Nic White situation where a lot of posters here see only his errors and none of the positive aspects he brings to a game, other posters see only the supposed good things Robbie does and not the poor. His defense certainly is not as poor as Beale's but whenever he has played fullback or wing in the NRC last year or earlier this Super season, he has had problems competing with the bigger, heavier opposition players running at him.

As I said elsewhere, if anyone thought it was a good idea to have him defending Nadolo, then I have to question their knowledge and understanding of the game. And Nadolo is not the only massive unit playing wing. Look at Naiyarovoro, Savea, Naholo etc. IMO the game has passed by the little player playing in the outside backs. Robbie is built like a No 9 and that should be the only spot he is considered for. Maybe next year?

I hate the size equation, skill and technique is a primary consideration. For years only Gregan was able to tackle Lomu effectively and consistently it should be remembered and now days halfbacks are reguarly defending against the big backrowers targeting off the scrum and lineout.

See my post above about White and the issues that he has being compounded by those outside him, and I'd also say the game plan and setup at the Brumbies.

 

[Brumby Runner]

White's problem is his tendency to commit visible errors at crucial times, which tend to linger in the memory far longer than good solid play.

No-one doubts White's class, it's the so-called 'howlers' that you just don't see Phipps making that see him fall down the pecking order.

White is a lot more central to the general direction of the Brumbies than Phipps is to the Tahs, which contributes to this disparity- Phipps has a simple brief and executes it well, while White's is more complex and can lead to trouble on occasion if everything isn't done right.
.

Hey @Barb, who commits invisible errors and when is not a crucial time in a game?

Nic White's game is a much more rounded No 9's game than others play, and as you say he is more central to the Brumbies' game plan than other No 9s generally are. His errors are noticed more because he has more involvement in a game than most if not all other No 9s.

He makes occasional errors kicking for touch, but as @Chronicle points out, he more often than not wins great field position with his touch kicking and that often leads to scoring opportunities for his team. Which other No 9 does this?

He is more responsible for directing play than most No 9s and his ability to pick out a runner in space, also commented on by @Chronicle, is the best of any Aus No 9 and probably best in Super rugby.

His defense generally is as good and any and better in a one-on-one situation. You might have noticed how he bull-dozed Sam Whitelock single-handedly to the ground when he broke though the ruck on the weekend. His cover defense is also up there with the best.

He is quicker to the breakdown than most and his passing is more accurate than all Aus No 9s imo.

The number of people who criticise him in no more than a band-wagon effect.

I am with @Chronicle on his well argued assessment of Nic White's abilities and performances. That's not to say he will, or should be, the starting Wallaby No 9. That will be whomever Cheika thinks will fit his game plan best. Just saying that he deserves his spot in the RWC squad and has plenty of skills that will be needed during the tournament.

My prophecy is that he will be regarded as one of the best No 9s in Europe in his first year with Montpellier.

 

[Brumbieman]

What was Coleman doing defending the wing when he was positioned and defending most of the game at 12? Do you think he was covering? Where were the wingers?

I do not like the bagging out of a player who is a reliable defender on the basis of this one game and two instances. A statistical analysis of the 2 failures:defensive success ratio doesn't support the OTT statement without looking deeper and asking the question. As I said it is not as if Coleman has the defensive history of Beale who has proved time and again to be little more than a speed bump.

He was coming across in cover as a sweeper, but it's not an excuse.


This is under 10's stuff, if there's a big fucker running down the sideline, ESPECIALLY when he's only 5m out, you just charge at the ankles and drag the legs over the sideline.


Fuck the offload, that requires a big man in motion with various forces on him, to get a pass away in time, that is good enough for a back up runner to catch, assuming he's even there.


If he get's it away and it works, well, shit happens, but you fucken FORCE him into that option by going low.

It cost us two tries, there's no way around it.

 

[barbarian]

Hey @Barb, who commits invisible errors and when is not a crucial time in a game?

Well a missed kick for touch in the final minutes is far more visible than, say, a missed cleanout by a tight forward that leads to a turnover, or a sub-standard lineout lift which means a jumper doesn't reach the ball.

And yes, the final minutes are more 'crucial' than most as that is where the difference between winning and losing is most prominent. Good plays in those minutes can straight out win games, while bad plays can do the opposite.
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